Trump says Palestinians have ‘no alternative’ but to leave Gaza

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No I'm saying you made the claim that they disappeared because they're bots. I'm saying that you're the one who should give proof in this case

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All the "Genocide Joe" complainers are nowhere to be found. Funny how that works.

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Jewish.

Though for this specific topic "genocide of Jewish people" would be better than "Jewish genocide" as the latter is unclear if the genocide is being perpetuated by or against Jewish people (and also the larger Jewish population shouldn't be held responsible for the actions of Israel). Neither would have alarm bells going off in the same way as using "Jew" as an adjective though. That's a very specific white supremacist phrasing.

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You are right

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I don't think you can blame the Dems for a majority of Americans voting for a man his own current VP once called "America's Hitler". We are here entirely because the majority of Americans wanted this.

In case you aren't aware our presidential elections aren't decided by popular vote but but electoral vote for each state apportioned sort of but not evenly according to population of state. If you get 50% + 1 vote in a given state you get all of that state's vote. You could in theory win as a red candidate with 40% of the popular vote. The majority of electoral votes are a foregone conclusion and even almost 40% of the vote in competitive states.

You could run your neighbors dog's ass as team red and win all of the vote in red states and 40% of the vote in purple states.

The entire direction of our country is determined by how as little as 2% of the county votes in 6 states. This privileges the conservatives control the country better than half the time despite only winning the popular vote twice in the last 32 years. Based on our constitution we can't change it without either their assent or a civil war and breakdown of all order.

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You should make this comment in a thread about Israel and Palestine vs in an article about Trump. It's not making it about Trump to discuss Trump in an article about Trump.

That said its not our fault Israel is a clusterfuck. It's a clusterfuck because of Palestinians and Israelis. Furthermore before it was Israel it was a British territory. The US is to schizophrenic and too morally weak to rely on to save anything. Save yourself or drown.

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You should make this comment in a thread about Israel and Palestine vs in an article about Trump.

If this was /c/news you'd be right and I should not bother with this kind of comment, because then it would be about looking at this from the point of view of US politics. This is /c/world news. Trump is not a candidate that won your election, Trump is the sitting US president. Like, listen, if Trudeau says something stupid about Palestine, it would be ridiculous for a bunch of Canadians to brigade the thread and make it about how strategic NDP voters spoiled the last Canadian election. You would be complaining and you'd be right. If we were to go do that over at /c/canada, we'd be right to tell you off if you complain, but here in /c/world, you'd be right.

It’s not making it about Trump to discuss Trump in an article about Trump.

I didn't say don't make it about Trump. I said stop whining about your last election. We don't care any more, it's tired, and it's stupid and I don't fucking want to hear about how mad you are at Jill Stein or Kamala any more. If you want to whine about other Americans, go to /c/news and knock yourself out.

That said its not our fault Israel is a clusterfuck. It’s a clusterfuck because of Palestinians and Israelis. Furthermore before it was Israel it was a British territory.

That's where you're wrong, yank. It is your fault. Your country has been enabling the Israelis for the last 5 decades. They would not be able to do shit if you didn't sell hand them over the weapons you do, if you didn't play their big brother lawyer at every single fucking UN institution, vetoing every single fucking condemnation for every single fucking crime that they do. They wouldn't be half as brazen if you were not doing everything possible to cover their asses at every single fucking opportunity you get. The Israelis are the primary culprit here, but the US is the reason why Israel keeps acting with complete fucking immunity and overwhelming power.

("you" == your country, not you personally)

The US is to schizophrenic and too morally weak to rely on to save anything. Save yourself or drown.

We agree on that one.

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I mean I never used the term "Genocide Joe" it seemed a little silly, but I was and am a person who said that in good contious I could not suport Biden, or Harris who said the only difrence we would see is a republican in her cabinet. No where in here am I saying this is anything less than the same level of genocide... nor am I saying that this is not more blatent, but the reality is that it is not significantly worse than the previous, that was just constantly being bombed, and that was being enabled by Biden

Maybe just maybe they stopped complaining because there reason to complain is no longer there, and they are complaining with you that Trump is aiding in a genocide.

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lets not confuse not voting for, and voting aganst

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Your argument's defense of a nonexistent boundary between genocide and ethnic cleansing boils down to genocide denial. There is no agreed upon definition of ethnic cleansing. There is no way to peacefully forcefully relocate a group of people. An attempt to forcefully relocate a group of people is motivated by the desire to destroy that group in whole or in part.

The quote from the wiki article points out everything I have now written down in this comment. It's written as a series of rhetorical questions with clear answers. Your argument's effort to misrepresent the wiki page's descriptive analysis of ethnic cleansing as an official definition is an attempt to police a none existent boundary. You argument left out the last part of that section.

Multiple genocide scholars have criticized distinguishing between ethnic cleansing and genocide, with Martin Shaw arguing that forced deportation necessarily results in the destruction of a group and this must be foreseen by the perpetrators.

A call for ethnic cleansing is a call for genocide. There is no way to engage in peaceful forceful deportation or population transfer. There is no meaningful difference between getting rid of a group by forcefully removing them and destroying them.

The Armenian genocide involved death marches, into the desert without food or water. What's the meaningful difference between sending people to die in the desert and destroying them? There isn't one.

https://www.history.com/topics/world-war-i/armenian-genocide

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your dogmatism did nothing to stop genocide either. we are both in hell.

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They don't, actually. They are practically masturbating to the idea of Palestinian genocide.

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Unless you're being foolish, by election day they are the same thing.

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Funny how there's always someone doing defense for the DNC before anyone even mentions them.

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That was the problem though wasn't it? Right after the Economy was Gaza and the Dems were the guy on the right. It was only ever the leadership on the left.

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agian they are deffinitionaly not, witholding support, and activly giving it to someone else are not the same

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Tell yourself that all you want. Unless you change from first past the post voting, it is the same.

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I think the vast majority of Democrats in House and Senate will bend the knee or just stay silent before facing persecution.

Since Trump's inauguration, the Democrats have been ineffective so far, but they haven't been silent. We'll find out soon.

And everybody voting the furthest left viable is a flimsy strategy for fighting fascism.

It was the only useful, viable strategy we had.

Many people already do that all the time, but you can’t make sure that everybody does.

We can count on people to act in their own self-interest. People can organize online to spread true information. The issue was that people fell for propaganda that convinced them to act against their own interests without them realizing it.

Also, with this there never was a chance to move the party any further left. Every election there was this myth that you have to vote moderate to change the party, but it never happened. Why should it? Moderates can say that the voters have shown they want moderate positions when they win. And when they lose for some reason they go, “Well, if you need them the most the progressives will stab you in the back. Let’s cut them out”. This is what I mean there are no consequences for Democrats, at least for the leadership that’s moderate and neoliberal. They will never move.

My argument is that voting for neoliberal Democrats will only incrementally shift the party to the left. In order to make the Democrats meaningfully change from a leaning right of center organization to at least a leaning left of center organization they must be co-opted by a progressive or socialist candidate with a populist narrative. This populist narrative would ideally be a progressive and socialist agenda. Like Bernie tried to do twice. In order for someone like Bernie to do this we needed more time before a fascist takeover.

We know this strategy can work because Trump did it to the Republican party. He used a populist narrative of white christian nationalism. However, we are now out of time and relying on the idea that fascist incompetence will give us another chance.

There is no fulcrum on the political spectrum that can force Democrats to change. And if what your argument wants is a reason for Democrats to change that is not consequences but incentives. To be clear, in a democracy the only consequence for losing elections is to lose out on political power. There is no mechanism besides voting to make Democrats agree with one group of constituents. Democrats look at who voted and then chase those votes.

As long as money is in politics the incentives will always be for the Democrats to incrementally change at best. At a pace that is far to slow to fix wealth inequality or climate change. Political power has to be seized when it is up for grabs during primaries in order to see more systemic change. But in order to do that there needed to be future elections which is no longer guaranteed.

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Yeah, because Kamala was so pro-palestine lmfao

What does that have to do with people who claimed they cared about Palestinians doing the right thing and voting for the BEST candidate regarding Palestine? Because Trump made it extremely clear he wanted Israel to steamroll Palestine and, oh shit, now that he's president that's the stance he's taking. WHO COULD HAVE FORESEEN THIS!?!?!?!?

Honestly, you're doing a great job of personifying the exact fools I'm talking about.

Like, any sane party would have seen how polling showed that a huge chunk of your base rejected your stance on Palestine and reevaluated.

You realize that a responsible government can't just change its stance regarding allies every 4 years just to win an election, right? We would have no allies. It'll be a cold day in hell before we jeopardize our most important ally in the Middle East. So are you suggesting Democrats should have stooped to Republican levels and lied to the American people by saying they would stop supporting Israel and then just take that back after they won?

Like goddamn, you’re here calling other people trash because they didn’t want to support a candidate who was okay giving a blank check to a foreign country earmarked for carpet bombing civilians?

No, I'm here calling trash people trash for pretending they cared about Palestinians and then refusing to vote for the BEST AVAILABLE OUTCOME for Palestinians. I mean, I guess you could argue that they aren't actually trash, but just really, really, super stupid people that somehow thought not voting for Palestinian's best shot would be a smart thing to do. I'm willing to meet you in the middle on that one.

These dipshits sealed Palestinian's fate AND put our own nation in extreme jeopardy. They can honestly go fuck themselves.

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Yeah loser, my first thought after these dipshits sealed Palestinian's fate by not voting for the BEST candidate regarding Palestine while simultaneously placing our own nation in extreme jeopardy is to point out that they're fucking fools and WE all told them so before they made a huge fucking mistake.

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Trump says Palestinians have ‘no alternative’ but to leave Gaza