Censorship

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At the same time, they do fund open source projects, most notably Immich, which is a fantastic Google Photos alternative. I’m personally okay with using their stuff, and tentatively happy with them as an organization, but I’m keeping a watchful eye on their behavior.

I couldn’t of said it better, I feel the exact same way. I’m not a complete FOSS zealot, if the source code is open and theres no shady business/trackers that’s good enough for me.

I am locking this thread to avoid needing to remove misinformation and advocacy from Futo fans who think they should be allowed to redefine a term which there has been consensus about the definition of since before they were born.

Like I say, it sure sounds to me like OP has a point. I also think this probably wouldn't happen on a server which didn't have a strong tradition of the mods determining what opinions people are and aren't allowed to have.

People also have a point who are noting that OP is ticking some of the boxes of the "right winger complaining about censorship" bingo card. Personally, that's not really offensive to me if it's just someone saying what they think and asking if they're allowed to say it, but it's definitely poking a hole in my "yinz are freaking out, he's just talking about keyboads" theory, I will admit.

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I read your post, so don't take my short response as me not reading through it or understanding your point.

But that user clearly passed the point where I could ever give them the benefit of the doubt. They're using a clear right wing dogwhistle, and I don't think they're asking it innocently. I don't think they used the keyboard thing as a pretext, but that the question they asked goes above the keyboard thing and reveals how they think about "being censored".

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There is a whole network of conservative fediverse instances and you're free to go to them. They also allow CSAM and outward racism, which is why this side of the fediverse doesn't federate with them. Hope that helps

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What are you even talking about? I'm on lemmy.ml because it's still federated with y'all, I just prefer to post in their instance because I don't always feel like arguing all the fucking time.

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What is the point of the fediverse having built-in censorship to ban ideas, views, and opinions?

Because that's what normal people want?

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Fair. The "Your side screams censorship" comment was something of a tactical blunder, too, if they wanted to be able to make the claim that this is all about keyboards. It does make it sound like they're trying to back their way into making a political point primarily.

I also didn't really read their whole post initially, I saw the basic gist and looked up the history, because I was mostly interested in the reality of how they were "censored" more than what they had to say about it. Then what I saw in the comments looked like the most knee-jerk of knee-jerks. But reading their post in detail definitely makes it sound a lot like they want to be racist but can't. Whether that was their intent or their desire or not, I don't know.

OP: If you pick a fight with the whole room, you'll be in a fight with the whole room. There's actually a significant sense in which I agree with you, probably putting me vastly in the minority on Lemmy, but you being deliberately disagreeable is going to make it harder for you to be able to succeed making your point, and also make a challenge for anyone who agrees with you to any extent.

It will also cause a bunch of conflict, though, so if that was your goal, you are succeeding.

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You don't "all the fucking time" have to start a hugely intense argument when you see an opinion you disagree with. The mods don't have to remove it. It can just be an opinion you disagree with. Or, even better, you and the person can sometimes be able to have a conversation about it. That kind of thing can be really valuable if you both approach it the right way. One or the other of you might be wrong, or you might see different aspects of a wider whole that's more complex than one person's preexisting models were accounting for. It's how people get to understand the world. No one person already has all the answers.

That precise "arguing all the fucking time, any time I leave lemmy.ml" behavior being the majority culture on lemmy.ml has kicked most of their communities having a kind of "don't go there" reputation, at least from the POV of most of Lemmy. That's what I'm even talking about.

Lemmy is really good software, honestly, and it's something the world needs more of, and regarded well and working well. Lemmy.ml "should" be a flagship instance. I think, much more so than the politics (which are far from unpopular, at least on the left/techie internet), the insularity and yelling / "I'm right you're wrong" type of culture on lemmy.ml does a lot of reputational damage.

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Yeah, over stuff like what to have for dinner. Not whether some people don't deserve human rights.

And let me make this perfectly clear: all people deserve human rights.

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I guess I should just let you beat up on a strawman and ignore it?

That precise “arguing all the fucking time, any time I leave lemmy.ml”

But I don't! I really enjoy posting on lemmygrad and hexbear too. It's just whenever I have to interact with reddit.world and other such liberal instances it turns into arguments because we disagree so fundamentally on issues that I am passionate about.

I'm not too stupid to understand the complexity of the wider world. I'm not so arrogant that I think my instance's moderation should be the standard on all lemmy instances. I'm not so arrogant to think people shouldn't be allowed to disagree with me. Again, what are you even talking about? I'm happy that you libs have your own instances! That's why I'm on lemmy.ml and not one of the instances that .world defederated from - I want to talk to y'all sometimes, even if we disagree on so many things.

So maybe stop beating up on this strawman?

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It’s just whenever I have to interact with reddit.world and other such liberal instances it turns into arguments because we disagree so fundamentally on issues that I am passionate about.

When someone seemed specifically interested in the conversation, I posted on Hexbear some specific things that I thought Biden did a good job on, with citations, and they threatened to stab me with an icepick and then instance-banned me. I actually abandoned the effort to do any kind of "debate," seeing it wasn't going anywhere, and only later realized that I was banned.

I’m not too stupid to understand the complexity of the wider world. I’m not so arrogant to think people shouldn’t be allowed to disagree with me.

Fair enough. I'm mostly just going by what you said, that you prefer lemmy.ml because you don't want to be in arguments all the time. The way I interpreted that was that any time you see a viewpoint that isn't the lemmy.ml viewpoint, you get in an argument, and it's exhausting, which I can understand.

Lemmy.ml thinks some things that, to me, are objectively wrong. "Tienanmen Square wasn't a massacre, that's just Western propaganda," being a good example. That's fine if we think differently about that, but if you think people should be allowed to say that to you, and you say something back to them, as long as you and they are both consenting to the conversation, you're at odds with the lemmy.ml moderation and administration team.

Actually, OP's conversation is also a perfect example of what I'm even talking about. People are genuinely asking what's going on with a particular keyboard app. I had never heard of FUTO before this. I was curious. My model is, I'm allowed to read what people think about it and make up my own mind. The mod's model is that his viewpoint is correct, and he's allowed to remove "misinformation" that conflicts with his model, and it isn't relevant what people think who are not him. Even though, in my view, some of his view is objectively wrong ("futo does not create open source" - https://immich.app/blog/2024/immich-core-team-goes-fulltime/).

That's part of what I mean about the wider picture. I'm not saying the mod is "wrong" in their view of FUTO. I'm just saying that, certainly, the counterpoint that FUTO funds important FOSS and that's an important thing for the conversation, isn't "wrong" either. You can't have someone going HAM about only their view, and no other, being allowed. It's just silly. You have people really wanting to educate themselves, and the mod saying "no no no stop educating I already gave you the answer stop reading and talking to each other." It just bugs me. That's not my culture and my expectation of a social network.

I'm not saying you, or either of them, is "stupid," like anyone who doesn't grasp everything in the world is some kind of moron who needs to be educated. I'm just saying the world is a big and complex place. As soon as you start shutting down anything that doesn't match "the model," you're shutting down some true stuff. In almost all cases. Not everything that doesn't match lemmy.ml is "libs" that can just be glibly discarded.

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Don't worry! I got you.

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Du bist ein scheiß Rassist und jetzt sieh zu das du Land gewinnst!

Happy now?

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Lols in German

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can't function in society where random individuals can freely reject their statements, so they need the internet to hide away from life.

Show me where in real life are random individuals able to interrupt your conversations with friends and like-minded people without being told to fuck off or punched in the face? People like you keep peddling this idea that we're all supposed to 'meet in the middle' at all times with bigots that think we don't deserve human rights, or else we're the bad ones. But real life doesn't fucking work like that.

I would not hang out with inbred supremacist fucking idiots even if you paid me. And I would not welcome them into my home or my social circles. You're free to speak but that doesn't mean that I have to fucking listen.

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Finally! Someone with a spine! Thank you for pointing this out. Have a nice day.

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Thanks for pointing out the paradox of tolerance. I love to cite it since its that old and everyone in our current neo-liberalist world seems to have no clue about it.

I do feel like we need to debate about the „no platform“. I do think that people should be able to have their nazi bar, as it has always been. Because being able to discuss your views, as vile as one might find them, doesnt mean you can spread them to everyone. Its important for people to get educated instead about every gory detail that comes with fascism. The furcances where millions of people get burned, some alive. For me its similar to people liking to eat human flesh. I find it disgusting but if you put them all on an island, they can eat each other all day.

But please feel free to state your opinion. I‘m eager to learn if there is a solid argument to stamp out fascism and how it is done without having to spy on people for „thought crimes“ like in the book 1984.

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Censorship