Is it racist to oppose illegal immigrants?
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Every time I meet someone who opposes illegal immigration but claims to support legal immigration I ask one question. If the law changed so that all immigration was legal, you'd be fine with it, right?
Nobody so far has been fine with it. I conclude that the question of legality is a dodge for people who are embarrassed about their actual motives.
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YES.
If you're an American, our entire history of immigration legislation is racism bundled on racism following in the tradition of racism. Were it not for chattel slavery and our betrayal of the native tribes our racist immigration laws would be the most shameful part of our history.
And if you're not American, your own country's immigration laws are almost certainly based on either racism or "nationalism", with the latter mostly being a holdover from when "French" and "English" were considered different races.
Unlawful emmigration to a country should be, at worst, a bureaucratic fine and probation. Anything more is simply bigotry in a polite suit.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
I worry a lot of it is human trafficking or at least human trafficking lite. A lot of employers really like having employees they don't actually have to pay properly or obey workplace safety and other protections for, and who will be afraid to speak up about fraud and other illegal practices.
But to me that would be easily solved if we only made it illegal to hire people without a permit, but never deport or otherwise penalize the workers. And publicize that heavily. So if you don't have a permit and your boss is abusing you, just call the hotline on the billboard and let us know and we'll arrest them and you can go find another sketchy employer and tell on them too when they piss you off.
No one would be hiring people without permits if there were actual consequences for the employer. We wouldn't be stuck with trying to figure out how to deport people and whatnot. They'd only be able to hire people the law is already protecting as workers. but nobody actually wants to hold rich people accountable for having caused all this trouble in the first place.
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I wouldn't say it's considered to be racist to oppose outlaws who came here without the proper paperwork, visa, etc.
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Feels like it's a dog whistle most of the time and not a very good one. I've seen people assuming that someone isn't here legally much more often with someone of a different race. A lot of the time people will bring it up for the sake of racism. Inherently? I don't know if it would be racist to oppose them for it's own sake, but you'd have to have just as much a problem with the German guy overstaying a visa. I'd also say that opposing it for it's own sake is unchristian.
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Yes.
Just ask yourself why there is even a barrier to entry in the first place. Prejudices and paranoia.
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It depends.
It would be racist to oppose immigrants from Sudan whilst welcoming those from Ukraine.
In my opinion, it is not racist to oppose illegal immigration per se.
Especially if those immigrants would benefit from a social system that you pay into.It is wrong, however to blame the immigrants, as it would be the system that is the problem.
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Every time I meet someone who opposes illegal immigration but claims to support legal immigration I ask one question. If the law changed so that all immigration was legal, you'd be fine with it, right?
Nobody so far has been fine with it. I conclude that the question of legality is a dodge for people who are embarrassed about their actual motives.
Oh my God the HEMMING and HAWING when suggesting easier immigration to one of these bigots.
They will do anything to avoid answering that question. It's really disgusting
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No as it's a fair national security concern
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This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
No, not on it's own, but it's rarely on its own. In the US opposition to illegal immigrants and racism tracks nearly one to one.
One could imagine a country where illegal immigration itself was a distinct problem, where the society was balanced in such a way that legal immigration was at an optimal rate and additional people coming into the country had downsides that outstripped the positives, when though, for example, the immigrants were of the same culture/class/standing as the existing citizens.
The US, on the other hand, is nowhere near an optimal legal immigration rate, even though we benefit pretty significantly from both legal and illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants, for example, contribute significantly to the economy while not drawing 'as many' benefits away. Overwhelmingly the actual arguments against illegal immigration are grounded in cultural differences and language and, to put it simply, the desire for one class to want a reason to consider themselves better than another class by an easily recognizable yardstick.
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Yes.
Just ask yourself why there is even a barrier to entry in the first place. Prejudices and paranoia.
This very much seems like a Chesterton's Fence issue.
Using the US/Mexico example - if the US didn't have some kind of restriction to its borders, we would expect Mexican cartel influence to spill over the border much more easily.
Or another example - suppose Ukraine had completely unrestricted flow across its border with Russia. Then Russia wants to invade. What do they do? They just have 100,000 soldiers walk across the border dressed as civilians, then launch their attack across the country.
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Absolutely not.
I really do believe that America should fix America first before it decides to try and 'help' other nations. The problem is, obviously, the wrong people are in place and doing it all wrong as possibly be.
Illegal Immigration has been a thorn in America's side for a couple decades now in recent memory. The only ones who benefit from it, are obviously corporations who love the idea of cheap labor in the form of modern-day slavery. The immigrants who come here, are not seen as people, they are seen as assets. And it is glaring, how those assets are ironically seen as more valuable than natural born workers who got hired.
Don't believe me? I've witnessed it where someone who immigrated here, got to take multiple months off from work and come back to retain her job. Meanwhile, people like me, have had to practically work and weed my way through the system to make sure I have days off, to make sure I keep my job secure. Tell me how in that way is it fair. There are probably numerous examples where naturally born citizens are sometimes treated lesser than, than those who came here from other countries and picked up similar positions to work.
But certain groups of people brush all of that under the rug and play the label game instead, rather than addressing the problem. It's easier for people to side-step these issues when they aren't the one experiencing them, so it must be comfy to think radically as if they don't exist.
And I don't really buy into the logic that the United States, and ONLY the United States mind you, should have open borders. Countries are allowed to have borders and keep them safeguard, it's been a thing for CENTURIES! But because it's the 2010s or 2020s, no no, we have to discard that ideal and apply it only to the United States. I'm sorry but the United States are as allowed as any other country in the world, to have borders and secure them as they see fit.
My point of the matter is, is that if you're going to migrate to the United States, you're expected to assimilate. Not be cherry picking and expecting people to bow to your will just BECAUSE you migrated, it doesn't make you that special. You don't charge over into places like Japan, Germany or other countries and expect them to bow to your will just BECAUSE you migrated from the United States, do you? If so, you're part of that problem.
And if you don't want to assimilate, then you're best being shipped back. Otherwise, it adds to the problem and I think the whole honeypot melting thing that the US Government has tried pushing around for a while now, has been a fundamental failure. Because now it has been completely politicized and only has made more people argumentative over the issue when it should have just been simpler.
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Every time I meet someone who opposes illegal immigration but claims to support legal immigration I ask one question. If the law changed so that all immigration was legal, you'd be fine with it, right?
Nobody so far has been fine with it. I conclude that the question of legality is a dodge for people who are embarrassed about their actual motives.
I support legal immigration, I empathize with illegal immigration (and think the laws could use adjustment in both directions)...but I don't think all immigration should be legal.
And no, it doesn't change if they're from "a Western country" or from somewhere that people look different from the majority in my country.
We have rising unemployment among citizens, especially young people, yet corporations are taking advantage of immigrants in various ways. And immigrants of all kinds -- legal, grey area, and illegal immigrants.
We are selling the idea of a lifestyle to people in other countries that isn't attainable unless you're part of the top quintile (or possibly an even smaller group) of income. Then they come here, bringing their university educations, and are competing for jobs against high schoolers.
I'm all about people coming to live in my country. But we're doing a disservice to immigrants through our laws/regulations and our corporations. And people who are here illegally are usually the biggest victims; the most exploited.
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Every time I meet someone who opposes illegal immigration but claims to support legal immigration I ask one question. If the law changed so that all immigration was legal, you'd be fine with it, right?
Nobody so far has been fine with it. I conclude that the question of legality is a dodge for people who are embarrassed about their actual motives.
I also would not be fine with it.
Having a barrier to entry is what keeps most of the dipshits out. There are dipshits in every country. I don't want to have to deal with another country's dipshits - we have enough to deal with on our own.
Exactly what the barriers to entry are should be reformed so that they make sense and allow all people in easily if they meet some straightforward requirements.
Borders have existed since paleolithic tribes staked out perimeters around their camps and established hunting territory boundaries with other tribes. Is it possible that we will someday live in a world completely free of restricted travel? Sure! But abolishing all barriers to entry across national boundaries tomorrow with a snap of the fingers would be a disaster.
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I am yet to hear a justification for opposing illegal immigration that doesn't tie back into racism or racial prejudice, let alone a justification that actually makes sense if you take it apart.
Someone prove me wrong, and I'll change my mind.
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In the US and many other countries, immigration violations are not crimes. Therefore, those immigrants are not illegal. It is actually a civil infraction, like a parking ticket... So, your question reveals hidden xenophobic bias. That alone is immoral. Is it racist in itself? Probably. It is very difficult to be xenophobic without also being racist.
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Except it's not illegal. Get your facts straight, please.
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Except it's not illegal. Get your facts straight, please.
Sorry, not sorry, blocking radicals. You're just energy vampires.
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In the US and many other countries, immigration violations are not crimes. Therefore, those immigrants are not illegal. It is actually a civil infraction, like a parking ticket... So, your question reveals hidden xenophobic bias. That alone is immoral. Is it racist in itself? Probably. It is very difficult to be xenophobic without also being racist.
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Where, and to what degree relative to Arabs or Latin Americans or whatever?
Like sure, you can find someone who said it was bad somewhere, but even in places like Romania or Poland they were never the main target of the xenophobic rage.
I live in SC. There was a big uproar about it and an even bigger one that the news shrugged its shoulders and went "eh, not really news worth."
