Is it racist to oppose illegal immigrants?
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Every time I meet someone who opposes illegal immigration but claims to support legal immigration I ask one question. If the law changed so that all immigration was legal, you'd be fine with it, right?
Nobody so far has been fine with it. I conclude that the question of legality is a dodge for people who are embarrassed about their actual motives.
I also would not be fine with it.
Having a barrier to entry is what keeps most of the dipshits out. There are dipshits in every country. I don't want to have to deal with another country's dipshits - we have enough to deal with on our own.
Exactly what the barriers to entry are should be reformed so that they make sense and allow all people in easily if they meet some straightforward requirements.
Borders have existed since paleolithic tribes staked out perimeters around their camps and established hunting territory boundaries with other tribes. Is it possible that we will someday live in a world completely free of restricted travel? Sure! But abolishing all barriers to entry across national boundaries tomorrow with a snap of the fingers would be a disaster.
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I am yet to hear a justification for opposing illegal immigration that doesn't tie back into racism or racial prejudice, let alone a justification that actually makes sense if you take it apart.
Someone prove me wrong, and I'll change my mind.
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In the US and many other countries, immigration violations are not crimes. Therefore, those immigrants are not illegal. It is actually a civil infraction, like a parking ticket... So, your question reveals hidden xenophobic bias. That alone is immoral. Is it racist in itself? Probably. It is very difficult to be xenophobic without also being racist.
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Except it's not illegal. Get your facts straight, please.
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Except it's not illegal. Get your facts straight, please.
Sorry, not sorry, blocking radicals. You're just energy vampires.
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In the US and many other countries, immigration violations are not crimes. Therefore, those immigrants are not illegal. It is actually a civil infraction, like a parking ticket... So, your question reveals hidden xenophobic bias. That alone is immoral. Is it racist in itself? Probably. It is very difficult to be xenophobic without also being racist.
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Where, and to what degree relative to Arabs or Latin Americans or whatever?
Like sure, you can find someone who said it was bad somewhere, but even in places like Romania or Poland they were never the main target of the xenophobic rage.
I live in SC. There was a big uproar about it and an even bigger one that the news shrugged its shoulders and went "eh, not really news worth."
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Except it's not illegal. Get your facts straight, please.
Not true is any sense, even the technical. Entering the US illegally, or overstaying a visa, is, at best, a civil offense. Still illegal. Diving into what constitutes a criminal offense gets sticky in a hurry.
My wife is a brown, legal immigrant, so I looked this up, read a bit, briefly. Again, it's complicated, and IANAL, so if the laws might apply, give a look. Bit in no case is entering without documents or overstaying "not illegal".
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Finally. Someone willing to talk about the issue other than, "ALL IMMIGRANTS GOOD!" And if you don't believe that, you're a racist fuck.
Been beat up, here and on reddit, in past years for stating that, yes, we had a nightmare at the southern border. Officials were overwhelmed and under financed, immigrants faced a fucking humanitarian disaster. People were suffering and dying and what did liberals have to say? "Man, fuck you, it's not true, it's Fox News propaganda." Meanwhile, the population of Chicago flooded in, year after year. How the fuck are we supposed to create the infrastructure and housing for America's 3rd largest city, every year. (I got numbers to back that, but I doubt any here give a shit.)
And JFC, no liberals are bitching about the modern-day slavery aspect. I've seen very few positing that we should go after business owners. "Just pay them fairly!" All for it, but the grocery bill is going to explode. And we're just now seeing the results of running them off, only just begun.
Yes, only Americans are racists for wanting to control our borders. Meanwhile, in Europe, where anti-immigration sentiment and protests are spiking... silence. (I think this is mostly down to overpopulation, but that's a whole 'nother rant.)
Don't start me on assimilation. My wife is Filipino. Her and all of her friends have assimilated nicely, thank you very much. Meanwhile, the dudes at the taco truck can't take an order, from a very limited menu, in English. Had always figured people like that were brand new. We took one of my wife's coworker's kayaking. Cool guy. Gay Honduran, walked 30-days to get here. Fucking tough enough for me! He didn't know words like, "boy", "girl", "year", "please". Assumed he just got here, OK with that. Nah. He has been here for 5 years.
We need immigrants, but we are fucking it up so badly I can't get my head around the stupidity.
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No, not on it's own, but it's rarely on its own. In the US opposition to illegal immigrants and racism tracks nearly one to one.
One could imagine a country where illegal immigration itself was a distinct problem, where the society was balanced in such a way that legal immigration was at an optimal rate and additional people coming into the country had downsides that outstripped the positives, when though, for example, the immigrants were of the same culture/class/standing as the existing citizens.
The US, on the other hand, is nowhere near an optimal legal immigration rate, even though we benefit pretty significantly from both legal and illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants, for example, contribute significantly to the economy while not drawing 'as many' benefits away. Overwhelmingly the actual arguments against illegal immigration are grounded in cultural differences and language and, to put it simply, the desire for one class to want a reason to consider themselves better than another class by an easily recognizable yardstick.
I wonder how old you are. Seems you're missing the population issue. I can go on and on, but I'm 54 and I've seen demographics and population change radically. Fine with the demographic changes, but I can see some being alarmed that "their" country is being taken away. Don't agree, but I get the sentiment.
As I've seen the planet's population more than double in my life, seen the countryside paved over for strip malls, I'm screaming, "NO MORE FUCKING PEOPLE!" Who's to blame? Can you see how it's easier to blame the "other"?
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I feel like if you're asking then you're searching for validation. A sort of way to not feel guilty about being racist. Tell me, what bothers you most about immigrants? This country wouldn't exist if it weren't for immigrants
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It depends.
It would be racist to oppose immigrants from Sudan whilst welcoming those from Ukraine.
In my opinion, it is not racist to oppose illegal immigration per se.
Especially if those immigrants would benefit from a social system that you pay into.It is wrong, however to blame the immigrants, as it would be the system that is the problem.
Illegal immigrants get jack shit out of our social system. But conservatives tell you they do!
In any case, you're right, it's the system. We've got legalized slavery and how do you fight the rich over that? And how do we actually pay these people without fucking our grocery bill?
I'm afraid it all has to crash, hard, before we reform anything..
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Yes.
Just ask yourself why there is even a barrier to entry in the first place. Prejudices and paranoia.
Doesn't lemmy have any sort of "adults only" limit?
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I also would not be fine with it.
Having a barrier to entry is what keeps most of the dipshits out. There are dipshits in every country. I don't want to have to deal with another country's dipshits - we have enough to deal with on our own.
Exactly what the barriers to entry are should be reformed so that they make sense and allow all people in easily if they meet some straightforward requirements.
Borders have existed since paleolithic tribes staked out perimeters around their camps and established hunting territory boundaries with other tribes. Is it possible that we will someday live in a world completely free of restricted travel? Sure! But abolishing all barriers to entry across national boundaries tomorrow with a snap of the fingers would be a disaster.
keeps most of the dipshits out
Perhaps, but the undocumented immigrants being rounded up do not seem to be dipshits. Dreamers, day laborers, people here for the past 20 years with no criminal history. Keeping the dipshits out is a nice idea, but our current policies are evicting people I want as neighbors.
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I wouldn't say it's considered to be racist to oppose outlaws who came here without the proper paperwork, visa, etc.
That's not so much the problem as the other excuses for hating immigrants.
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I also would not be fine with it.
Having a barrier to entry is what keeps most of the dipshits out. There are dipshits in every country. I don't want to have to deal with another country's dipshits - we have enough to deal with on our own.
Exactly what the barriers to entry are should be reformed so that they make sense and allow all people in easily if they meet some straightforward requirements.
Borders have existed since paleolithic tribes staked out perimeters around their camps and established hunting territory boundaries with other tribes. Is it possible that we will someday live in a world completely free of restricted travel? Sure! But abolishing all barriers to entry across national boundaries tomorrow with a snap of the fingers would be a disaster.
I think I understand what you're saying and don't necessarily fully disagree, but the directness at the very start definitely made me brace for xenophobia. In part because "dipshits" can be used as a dogwhistle
However, I would 100% classify trumpers as dipshits
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Fucking. Thank. You.
Anyone hating illegal immigration? I got the most obvious solution you can imagine. Report the employers.
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The answer there is that of course it’s insanely difficult to legally become a citizen of the US, and it can take years - even decades, but people have a family that’s hungry now.
Same for other places. Even Canada, which is apparently one of the best destinations, has a system that's poorly designed to the point of maliciousness.
wrote last edited by [email protected]It took my dad about 15-20 years in the US to get citizenship. It took my friend about 10 in Canada. Both are fucking terrible, but the US is a special kind of processed garbage
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I am yet to hear a justification for opposing illegal immigration that doesn't tie back into racism or racial prejudice, let alone a justification that actually makes sense if you take it apart.
Someone prove me wrong, and I'll change my mind.
Essentially this. There are no arguments against immigration that arent racist or xenophobic.
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It depends on where you are.
e.g. in NZ, we don't have a problem with illegal immigration, but completely legal "temporary migrant workers".
The issue, isn't the people, it's the load on already stretched infrastructure. Because they are "temporary", they are not factored into the calculations for infrastructure spending.
This wouldn't be a problem, if a short team need was being met, but it isn't... There are always temporary workers, because we as a country can't fill all the jobs from local supply.
With birth rates and other immigration, our population growth is around 1.5%, not the 0.5% we target our spending at.
If we spent at a rate that accounted for the real population growth, everything would work better for everyone.
