‘If 1.5m Germans have them there must be something in it’: how balcony solar is taking off
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1.5 10^6 Germans vs 1.5 10^-3 Germans
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That kind of depends on what you're building. Standard is currently 800W (2 standard solar panels). Older models use 600W, other models are using 2000W and limit it to 800W. That doesn't make much sense, but skirts our local regulations that limits them to 800W, but of course generates more energy.
It then also depends on where you live. Can you point it to the sun? Do you live in sunny Spain or in northern Norway? In Germany a 800W system can produce 800-1200kWh per year. Our average electricity price is at 0.35€, so you'll save 280€-420€ a year. And those systems are dirt cheap, there are deals out there where you can get one for 200€. That is quite a good ROI for something that you can install in an hour.
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In Germany, NL, you can just plug it into socket and it works somehow.
This is incredibly dangerous as it will feed power into the grid even when the grid is down. You might say 'that is great!', yeah, well, the line technicians who cannot work on damaged cables because you are energizing them think otherwise.
One of the reasons solar grid-feeding systems are expensive in the US is they have extra equipment to disconnect the system from the grid if it goes down. Your house can will still have local power, but you won't be energizing powerlines technicians are trying to fix.
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Yeah I get all that, but what if I need heating in the winter and have very low consumption in the summer? That is why I'm searching for real world numbers. If you give me some for a specific place then I can at least have a ballpark number if what I might get where I live.
OTOH as you say, they start to be so cheap it's almost impossible to go wrong...
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Smart planning! Thanks for the story, are you planning to go off grid or is it just to be economically free? Any batteries in the future? Excellent reference, and implementation, I'm giving you an 11 out of ten!
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Wait really? I didn't know we finally caught up with the neighbors!
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That won't really work as that is the worst scenario for solar. I can give you real world data from southern germany. I don't have balcony solar, but a 13,4kWp solar system on my roof. Here is the data from this year:
As you can see, days are getting longer in Feb, generation is going up. To get a rough estimate, take my data and divide it by 16,75. That won't give you a lot of heating, esp. with a normal space heater. Even if you had a scenario, where your 800W solar system would produce 800W in the winter, your space heater will suck 2000W. Take a look at its power cord, you'll see how much it uses.
So yeah, 800W is not much, but will cover your running appliances like your fridge, freezer, router or computer on sunny days.
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Storing something extremely dangerous extremely safely for "some hundreds of thousands of years" doesn't exactly sound cheap, does it?
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I obviously don't consider fossil fuels as an option. And I do doubt that it's cheaper to build a nuclear plant compared do building a coal or gas fired one.
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God, I love living in a nuclear plant evacuation zone
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Infrastructure should be public, with regulated access for wholesale and retail. It works. The grid operator needs to make money for large scale projects like interconnectors, modernising, maintenance and build.
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Hey thank you! I'm definitely saving this off for my future calculations!
You're totally correct about the rest, and I'm now able to roughly see if I should buy a 800 system or two, or theee... Electric hookups included in the calculation of course.
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These plugin systems shut down automatically when there's a power outage. To make sure that they really do shut down when needed, in Belgium only plugin systems that have been approved by the network management organisation may be used. The other countries that allow these probably have similar precautions.
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Read it as germans who are 1.5 meter tall, wondered why them being short is relevant.
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Officially it's allowed after April 17th, but there's already an extensive list of approved devices.
https://www.test-aankoop.be/woning-energie/hernieuwbare-energie/nieuws/plug-and-play-zonnepaneel
There's probably a french version of that article as well, but test- achats/aankoop hasn't made it easy to switch languages
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Thanks.
Going off grid was absolutely a consideration, but only for a very short while. There are too many downsides. We would need twice as much solar capacity, and a way bigger battery, and batteries are still pretty expensive, but even with that, we would still need a generator. And we wouldn't be able to sell surplus energy. It would more than double the cost, and only provide 25% better self sufficiency for the whole year than we have now.
We live in Denmark, and we can risk to have to go through almost all of December with only a few days sun. Running a diesel generator for power would be both noisy and smelly, It would also require more work to maintain, and it would actually cost slightly more to us a generator than to simply buy the electricity from the grid.Remember doubling our capacity will not bring us from 41 to 82% self sufficiency. Because there is some loss in storage, and even double our battery capacity would not be enough to store 48 kWh like we made today in the span of only 7 hours. (Today was the best day of the year yet.
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Even in January on a perfect day, we can make twice what we use, but such days are rare in January. (we use about 15 kWh per day.)The final problem with a generator is that we would never be able to achieve remotely the stability we have with the grid. We've been living here for 6½ year, and the power has only been out once!!!
The problem with making it bigger than we have at all, is that after you've reached a point of above 50% self sufficiency, you are entering the area of diminishing returns quickly. On a yearly basis we are about 72% self sufficient. To reach that extra 22% probably cost 50% extra.
This is if you live as high north as we do, because the extra capacity is only usable in the winter, in the summer it's all surplus, and you get so little for selling the power it's basically irrelevant. There is too much solar now, so when solar panels have high yields, prices often go down to almost zero.
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The relentless march of sustainable cosplay continues. A million Germans clinging to plasticky solar trinkets like rosary beads against energy insecurity—how very on-brand for a nation that dismantled nuclear plants to cozy up with Putin’s pipelines. Nothing screams “green revolution” like propping up coal while bureaucrats hyperventilate over balcony wattage permits.
But sure, let’s pretend these glorified battery chargers absolve collective guilt. Social media’s latest performative ritual—slap a panel on your railing, flood Instagram with hashtags, ignore the 14-month waiting list for certified installers. Peak late-stage decarbonization theater: all aesthetics, no grid.
At least it’s honest. We’ve stopped pretending policy can fix anything. Why demand competent governance when you can DIY your dystopia?
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1.5m Germans are 150cm people !
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Are you under the impression that the people buying solar for themselves are against sustainable energy solutions on a state level?
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Transformers, power lines, roads, trucks, and maintenance teams to move from large scale plants to houses also doesn't grow on trees, but if maintenance in remote places doesn't happen it can burn a lot of them.
Sometimes large scale plants make sense, but as the back up too microgeneration where the costs of infrastructure to move from unpopulated to populus areas make sense.
I am also a fan of less inverted power in microgeneration though. More and more of power usage is DC anyways. The need to convert to AC as much IMHO, but that is my far more radical take
