Are modern Final Fantasy games bad?
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I think that is what made that battle system interesting: More focus on delegation over micro management.
The main portion of the battle played outside of the battles themselves and was all about how you essentially "programmed" these workflows for each character to work in harmony together to win battles. You could get in the fray to fix any unintended outcomes of these flows, but was mainly to observe the outcomes and make adjustments.
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You lost me at XII wasn't great and saying XIII had an OK story. The writing on XIII is one of the most atrocious I've experienced, it hits like a korean dramedy. The combat was OK but had the depth of a puddle.
A realm reborn has a steep climb to 60 but it's worth it for the great story and impactful world events (granted the fetch quests get boring, the community makes up for it).
XV was not great, the world-building prior to release was exciting but the hit from the game was lacking. They tried to make it better with episodes and extended content but by then I didn't feel like coming back. The combat was a sore disappointment, long gone were the puzzles of the prior games. The story was OK enough but it didn't carry the game.
XVI suffers from the same problem as XV. The story is pretty fitting in a fantasy setting, the set piece moments are absolutely sublime, but the pacing and combat are off. Not enough depth. It feels, much like XV, as a final fantasy for dummies (and the performance and technical aspects of the game leave a lot to be desired)
XII is a goddamn masterpiece. -
I've played 7, 8, 7 Remake and Rebirth, and 16. I love each and every one of them.
16 can be tough sometimes just with how much cruelty exists in the world that the game is set in. Otherwise I find it quite excellent. The combat is really fun and varied, music is really good, characters are deep and complicated, visual design and graphics are really really good.
7 Remake and Rebirth are outstanding. I just put 150 hours into Rebirth since it launched recently on PC. I played the original back in the day and loved it back then, the nostalgia that remake and rebirth give me is like a highly refined illicit drug and it's great. Nanaki and Cosmo Canyon are some of my most beloved gaming memories ever.
I barely remember 8 but I played it a ton as a teenager, still have a bunch of music from it (great salt lake music still sends chills down my side!)
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I don't really care for them anymore. I think they're still very well crafted games from a passionate team, but I haven't really felt great about a FF game since 10. Ignoring the MMOs:
12 was decent but the story was pretty dry in the first hall and Vaan was just not a compelling protagonist at all.
13 was reasonably fun to play after finding the "rhythm" I think they intended from the combat, but I never loved the story or any of the characters aside from Sazh.
15 had a lot of potential in the story, I actually liked the "dudes on a road trip" concept, but that awful sword hanging mechanic was always so unreliable that it eventually killed my progress in its tracks.
After that, I skipped 16 entirely.
The 7 sequel was actually really good, but everything I liked about it came directly from the original or built on top of it in a transparent way. The spooky ghosts and action combat were changes I strongly disliked and endured just to see the extended original story, but I thought they were huge steps back. It was a very good game that constantly had me wishing they just stuck to expanding the original story which is plenty convoluted on its own.
I still haven't played the 7 sequel part 2, but I expect I'll feel pretty much the same - in awe of the world and expanded story but constantly annoyed by spooky ghosts and mediocre action combat.
I really think the 7 sequels show that the Final Fantasy franchise has a place in the modern JRPG scene, but they would benefit from a return to form. I'd love to see the next FF game sporting a fast paced Persona-style turn based combat system combined with maybe a dystopian techno-futuristic setting. All the parts are in there somewhere, they just need to put them together in the right order.
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No, I don't think so. They are just different and people don't like change. For context, I'm a massive JRPG fan and I've played: 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 9, 10, 12 and 15. And of course tons of spin-offs. Planning on playing 7, 8 and 13 - don't care for MMOs and 16.
Out of these, I love of course the obvious early ones: 4 and 6.
However, 10 is my favorite overall. It has the most solid gameplay (fuck ATB tbh) and a great story, even though we sideline Sin way too much for Seymore who I don't care for. It's biggest problem are the minigames though, I hate Blitzball and especially the Cloister of Trials.
9 could be better, but the steam version crashes so much I didn't get to finish it.
Now, after 10 we got a lot more experimental:
12 was fun but had massive problems. It's biggest was the autobattle mechanic alongside the speed up in modern releases. You basically don't play the game and you don't even strategize. It's always faster to sprint a few minutes around the map and get back with more levels which ultimately killed any interest I had in the battle system. But I dislike programmable party members in every game, so your milage may vary. The worldbuilding on the other was awesome.
15 was a great game. I think it's reception isn't wrong necessarily because of how much it differs from trailers and such. However, I played it years after release and without having seen a single trailer. I had a blast throughout. The writting is among FF's best, not because it's such a great story, but because the relationships between the main party are so strong. I even liked the battle system - it's different and has a lot of potential I think. It's biggest failure is that you need to watch a series, a movie and read lots of other material to grasp the story - a lot of it isn't in the game.
16, I can't say much about. I'm honestly not very interested in basic medieval fantasy settings, they've stripped out the RPGs mechanics and quite frankly I just don't own a system I could play it on. Maybe I'd like it after all, I don't know.
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I've played and beat every single numbered FF title except for 11.
The new ones are good, just different. No one likes every single FF game, everyone has a favorite they associate with the time they jumped into the series, and then all others end up colored by how similar or different they seem to that ideal one.
Even the people in this thread bashing FF13 would probably be surprised to know how many people out there think it's the best (I know, a shock).
I can share my own opinions on which games are good or bad, but it's ultimately meaningless unless your tastes happen to coincide identically to my own.
And besides, everybody knows 9 is the best, without question.
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I feel similarly. I made a whole video about it.
https://youtu.be/_C0CdAgLdbY -
Agreed.
I was actually very cold to the idea of the gambit system early on because "the game plays itself" sounded like such a cheap style of gameplay.
Later, though, when I got a better sense of what it was trying to accomplish, it made a lot more sense, especially when thinking about the game in the context of sharing the same world as Final Fantasy Tactics.
Tactics is all about troop strategy, simulating that experience of being a military commander. The gambit system in 12, meanwhile, is like taking that concept and moving it down to the ground level, where you have to strategize with your allies before an engagement and then trust that people know what to do in the moment, with the player intervention happening one character at a time being more like real-time improvisation than strategizing.
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I play FFXIV. I'll break it down by expansions, but it's the one that didn't follow the general downwards trend so much.
1.0 - trash. They couldn't figure out how to work together. One guy spends forever making the best looking water wheel ever, in the background, that you never interact with. It's too graphically intensive, and flows the wrong way from the water. It doesn't match the building it's attached to. Meanwhile, they forget to add roads towards main cities. It's an unplayable mess. It's literally unplayable, as they killed it off to replace it with:
2.0, A Realm Reborn - they really fixed it under one guy's leadership. It's playable, and works. It's outdated somewhat today, but has a lot of moral grey areas and twists. There's a lot of running around and time wasting, which was common back then.
Heavenward - they made a great story. It's one of the best expansions. Streamlined and faster. No needless "talk to 5 villagers" quests like previously.
Stormblood - not as great. There's a lot of setup they use later. The world building is really great, though. Some of the best looking areas.
Shadowbringers - the best expansion they've ever made. Perfectly balanced world building and characters, and story. This is peak FF, with the best music as well. Probably because they can ditch much of the old A Realm Reborn story.
Endwalker - ties it all together. The story leads up to "death is inevitable for everything that has ever lived, so just die now" kind of depression hopelessness that you wonder how they'll get out of it. Well, because it's Japanese and FF, it's the power of friendship that saves the day. But, this really feels like the culmination of everything they've learned in the previous expansions.
Dawntrail - this is the downward slide. They force you into a role to support someone for ruler that is almost slapstick bad. Characters don't make logical choices. The theme is all over the place and can't decide what it wants to be. Many people say to stop at endwalker, but we'll see how the next expansion goes, which is years away.
There's plenty to say about the game otherwise, but the general thought is that they're gradually cutting corners, taking longer, and under delivering as they're stretched too thin. They're feeling the same pressure everyone else in the world is - not enough money. Which is crazy, because FFXIV is THE game keeping Square Enix alive.
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"Modern"? I don't know.
Final Fantasy 10 was the last game that fit the 'traditional' turn based (active or not) gameplay. Since then there's been less consistency between iterations.
Final Fantasy 11 and 14 are MMORPGs and are just fundamentally different games as a result. The latest is essentially Devil May Cry gameplay.
A lot of people enjoyed DMC and DMC is not inherently bad, but it may not be what people expect.
But the spinoffs using the Final Fantasy name have always been pretty damn hit or miss. (Compare Mystic Quest to Tactics.) This just now applies to the whole series.
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Fuck it, here's my hot takes:
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Short, but feels just the right length, I appreciate how it seems to borrow more strongly from the D&D roots the series developed from (e.g. spell slots instead of MP)
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First game with defined characters. Enjoyed it but the Elder Scrolls style of leveling through ability use made it feel like you have to play a certain way and I probably grinded more than I needed to by the end.
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It's aight. First game with jobs. Eternal Wind is a good track.
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First game with an ambitious story. Thought it was good, but a bit overhyped.
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The best of the 2D games and I won't hear anyone say otherwise.
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I liked the large cast of characters in the first half. I didn't like having to re-get the cast of characters in the second half. Good, but also overhyped.
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Most ambitious transition between games, going from 2D to 3D. I know it's the darling of the franchise, and it is undoubtably good and packed with content, but I feel it has aged the worst of all of them.
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I can see why it is some people's favorite and a lot of other people's least favorite. Unbelievably charming cast. Good ideas with the combat but could have used another pass.
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The first FF game I played. Amazing cast of characters and an amazing story. Tetra Master is bullshit. Debatably not a JRPG by some definitions.
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Love the game to death, yet hate Tidus so much. I couldn't get into Blitzball.
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Does the current Alliance Raid series in 14 count?
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The Gambit System ruined the rest of the franchise for a lot of people (interpret that however you like).
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Better than people give it credit for. Not without flaws but a lot of the hate feels more like folks never got out of the tutorial. Also, the tutorial is two thirds of the entire game.
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Best story of the entire FF series, but also the one that you'll need to work the hardest to get through. Also, did you know that thereisafreetrialuptolevel70withnorestrictionsonplaytimeincludingtheawardwinningHeavenswardandStormbloodexpansions?
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A fun game with a good story and cast of characters, but the missing chunks of the game that it was supposed to be are apparent.
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Didn't like it as much as I thought I would but still found it to be overall enjoyable. Heaviest story an FF game has ever told (including Tactics). Wish there was more of a "party" but Clive and Ben Starr's voice work are too good not to love.
Bonus 7R hot takes:
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Remake: Somehow they turned a 4-hour chunk of the original game into an enjoyable 40-hour story without it feeling too drawn out. Great gameplay. Plot changes actually helped me appreciate the sequel more. Anyone worried about the game being a money grab sold in 3 parts doesn't know what they're missing.
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Rebirth: Despite people's apprehensions about plot changes, it manages to continue being incredibly faithful to the original story, with some tasteful additions. Probably the most uncompromising AAA game I've ever played. Can't help but love it, and am really interested to see where part 3 goes.
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To explain the joke:
!Half of the early FF games weren't released in the West until later on. FF1 was, but 2 and 3 were not. So when 4 released outside of Japan, publishers thought it would be weird to have the numbering go from 1 to 4, so 4 released internationally as FF2. And then 5 got skipped over as well, so when 6 released internationally, it was released as FF3. However, they wanted to standardize the numbering starting with FF7, because FF7 was a Big Deal
, so for players outside of Japan, the series numbering suddenly jumped from FF3 to FF7. And the skipped games were later released internationally, so the numbering is now consistent with the initial Western numbering now largely forgotten.!< -
I can say that I enjoy the Final Fantasy series just for the fact that I respect they are always trying something different with each one. This has the end result of me not getting on with several of them, but critically, someone else does.
I just find it kind of beautiful that a series is willing to experiment with itself to such a degree, and that at this point there really is at least one game in it for just about everyone.
All it really means is that I have to accept that not every game has been made with me as the target.
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For the record, I was also immensely disappointed in XV. However I loved XVI. The ability cool downs in particular felt very ATB-like to me and I loved the customization. The story is very good and one of my favorites from storytelling perspective (in other words, HOW the story is told).
I also really liked the combat and exploration of XII. And the Zodiac version makes it even better.
I thought XIII had some of the best moments in the series.
XIII-2 perfected the gameplay from XIII and made storytelling and exploration "fun"
XIII: LR is very experimental and has some of my favorite action-based combat in the series.
World of Final Fantasy is a lot of fun if you want turn based monster capturing.
Stranger of Paradise is a blast. My only issue with it is that you can't really overpower by leveling up. I hit a hard wall with a boss and the only way through is "get good".
I didn't get much into Type-O but I keep meaning to.
Theatrhythm exists. I love it, but it's also it's own thing entirely.
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Some of us have favorites that arrived well after starting the series.
That said, I feel the need to tap the sign: if anyone thinks mainline Final Fantasy games are bad, they need to play some genuinely bad games for perspective. There are plenty available even within the genre: Beyond the Beyond, Ancient Roman, Lunar Dragon Song, etc.
The series is constantly reinventing itself, and that's going to leave people behind. SQEX still manages to retain consistently high production quality despite that.
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X was the last one with a good story
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being a linear game isn't a negative though and in ffx you get the airship to do nonlinear content.
interests are subjective I thought the game starting off with the destruction of a city and being flung "1000 years" into the future held my interests
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How do you like the toppings on your pizza?
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Clearly they haven’t played Persona 5/Royal, and seen how much you can innovate with turn based battles and make them really fun
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16 is absolutely fantastic. I haven’t read any reviews for it so I don’t know what they are saying but I had an absolute blast playing it. Had a smile on my face from beginning to end. Well, I enjoyed it atleast I found the ending very sad.
