France to ban smoking outdoors in most places to protect children
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The issue with smoking is the second hand smoke. It causes cancer, among many other health issues. Vape on the other hand doesn’t really have this same concern.
They aren’t banning smoking because of nicotine, they are banning it because it causes cancer.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Yes, secondhand smoke is bad. But we are talking about outdoor environments where it should usually be possible for smokers to keep their distance.
As for vaping, it hasn’t really been around long enough yet to know for sure what the health risks are regarding the secondhand aerosol exposure, but there is reason to be concerned. It is almost certainly not as bad as secondhand smoke, but there are still risks.
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Yes, secondhand smoke is bad. But we are talking about outdoor environments where it should usually be possible for smokers to keep their distance.
As for vaping, it hasn’t really been around long enough yet to know for sure what the health risks are regarding the secondhand aerosol exposure, but there is reason to be concerned. It is almost certainly not as bad as secondhand smoke, but there are still risks.
While I agree, these laws aren’t being made because smokers keep accidentally smoking near others, it’s because a large number of smokers can’t be assed to keep their distance. The major place I notice smokers is when they are just meandering through a large crowd as if everyone around them is fine with the smoke.
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While I agree, these laws aren’t being made because smokers keep accidentally smoking near others, it’s because a large number of smokers can’t be assed to keep their distance. The major place I notice smokers is when they are just meandering through a large crowd as if everyone around them is fine with the smoke.
I get that, but shouldn’t it be possible then to target that kind of behavior specifically rather than all smoking? Rather than banning smoking on x beach or in y park, they could ban smoking within x meters of a minor or non consenting adult. It would be more complicated but also more fair.
Ultimately I don’t know what all of the problems with that approach would be, but it would make more sense to me.
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On-and-off smoker here (mostly off)
In my experience, nicotine is great for moderating rage and resentment. It can help in bad situations and also provides a space where one can effectively shut distractions out and enter a somewhat meditative state to work on issues. It performs this task very, very well.
It is not the same as "just taking a walk" or "standing outside". Absent-mindedly smoking provides a different experience. I am envious of people who can go to the park and get the same kind of effect out of it, but for a raft of different reasons I can't reach the same experience.
I know smoking damages nearly every part of your body. I know it's addictive. I know many smokers aren't considerate of others, and blow smoke all over people downwind, in through windows and leave cigarette butts everywhere. I know wildfires start from improperly extinguished butts. I am not one of those people, and take pains to enjoy a cigarette where I will impact as few people as possible. And when my life looks up? I quit, because I don't need it anymore, and it serves no useful purpose.
Unfortunately, there seems to be less and less room in the world to create the kind of space where one can take a few minutes such as this. And that I think is the crux of the resistance here.
We keep asking for more out of everyone, and usually to no benefit for themselves. We keep making organizational decisions which result in people feeling stressed, angry, resentful, and then in turn quite deliberately fail to understand when people pick up a vice that is harming them... and then try to ban that behavior, or sanctimoniously tut away that they are somehow selfish for wanting a break from it all for five damned minutes.
There's so many different instances under which this theme plays out. I doubt this law will be enforced evenly, and it seems predictably authoritarian and counterproductive like many substance control laws. We can't stop people stuffing a bunch of plants into a pipe, or into a paper wrapping and smoking it. It's simply too easy to do, and it provides too much utility as a temporary respite from life for people to stop.
Want to solve it? Try finding ways of making life less terrible for the critical mass of people so that they won't feel a need to smoke. And even then some still will, maybe out of spite, addiction (medical/psych treatment could be offered?) or downright contrarianism; but maybe few enough that it won't matter. That's the hard, and proper, fix for this. Smoking cessation drives are quite effective, as well as reasonable limitations on where one can smoke, and I think that is a fine policy balance.
I think cigarettes, especially manufactured ones, should be available and taxed appropriately for the healthcare burden they will produce later in life. Everyone should be aware of the health considerations in no uncertain terms. I think it's appropriate to limit smoking around areas where at-risk populations live and congregate (incl. Children), and the rest really has to be allowed to work itself out in the ad-hoc grey area loosely defined as "Community", "Consideration", "Conscience" and "Respect".
The Law is too heavy handed a tool to be expected to succeed here.
Anyway, I'm sure they've already thought about all of this and discussed it at length. Just like taxing older diesel cars without considering the consequences to folks the rural south who were unable to afford new vehicles.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]The problem is that inconsiderate smokers are actively hurting the health of the people suffering from their inconsideration. Passive smoking is a thing, and it has long term consequences.
So while it sucks for the individual freedom of considerate smokers like yourself, banning public smoking protects a lot of people who get their health damaged by what is in my experience in France most of the smokers. And protection is one of the purposes of the law.
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I love how everyone supporting this just assumes you'll still be able to smoke at your own home when it doesn't saying anything of the sort. It explicitly states 'where children COULD be present'. This is literally everywhere short of some BDSM dungeon. This is basically going to make the population choose between smoking and having kids.
Well No, those laws usually only apply to Public areas, so as to Not Hurt your right of doing jackshit in your Home. At least the cannabis law in Germany has been designed Like it (but alas, cannabis is Not as much detrimental to the health of people around one as Smoking is).
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GOOD point. They shouldn't ban cigarettes until everything else bad is also banned.
But they shouldn't ban anything else bad unless everything bad is banned. Fuck we can't ban shit
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What country is it? I always wanted this for mine.
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I thought everyone in France smoked, including the kids, no?
wrote on last edited by [email protected]In cliché world yeah.... But in reality, not so much.
It been years... no... decades that smoking have nearly disappeared around me - including in the office.
I work with hundreds of people and the amount of people smoking can fit one hand. 25 years ago, i needed more than 2 hands to count them. And in my family, nobody starting at my parents generation and younger smokes.
Same story with wine during lunch. 25 years ago, it was several bottles each day at lunches.
Today, no more wine bottle and the trend started since easily 15 years now. Only for big occasion and the quantity have decreased a lot.
People drink more beers now. But far less than wine.
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I usually hit a weed vape which has a much milder smell and less irritants (I make my own carts using live resin and pyur thinner, which is about the cleanest Liquidizer you can get.)
That being said I usually park my car across the lot from the building, and blow it out the window.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Yeah, on the one hand I don’t like vapes as an enabler of bad habits, especially as edibles are so much more available now. Anything you breathe in is going to have a negative impact on your long term health. However vaping means you’re not inflicting your vice on anyone else and you’re avoiding most of the long term health impact of breathing in burnt leaves and chemicals. Vapes still stink but so much less and I can’t really claim second hand smoke danger
But so much the better that you show that courtesy to your fellow humans. Thank you
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No they're not. Do they outlaw drinking everywhere children might one day walk through.
Yes they do wtf. Dont drink and drive.
