In shock announcement, Trump says U.S. wants to take over Gaza Strip

[shepherdpie@midwest.social]

Why because I don't blindly support and fiercely defend a strategy that tanked nearly three Democratic presidential candidates in a row?

Nah, it's definitely going to work the fourth time. I'm back on board.

[sir_pronoun@lemmy.world]

lol yeah it's worse now, what the hell are you saying

[orclev@lemmy.world]

The issue is that it's practically the only thing being commented in any post related to Palestine and it's drowning out all the useful discussion that needs to be taking place. Pick any post about Palestine and look at the comments and the overwhelming majority of them are some variation on "boy, I bet all those people who refused to vote for Harris are so happy now", which is about as useful a comment as all the idiots that used to rush to post "First" on articles back in the day.

These "told you so" comments are so pervasive it's starting to feel vaguely like astroturfing. A bunch of comments encouraging non-Republican voters to fight amongst themselves and drowning out any possible productive discussion or organization sure sounds like it would be a brilliant move by the fascist supporters. I'm not suggesting everyone making those comments is astroturfing or a troll, but the absolute way that's blanketing all discussion around Palestine sure does make me wonder if some of them are.

[the_terrible_humbaba@slrpnk.net]

Explain to me how, then. Don't be abstract or vague. Tell me, right now, concretely and materialistically, and preferably with sources, how are things worse for Palestinians right now?

I've had this argument before and I never got an answer. Do you think it makes any difference for a Palestinian who is being shot/tortured/raped/blown up/having their home destroyed if the weapons and ammo that are being used to achieve those goals come from one American party or the other? Or did you just forget everything that was happening in Palestine before Trump was elected? Feel free to look at the links I posted.

[drzoidberg@lemmy.world]

I'm so sorry, I didn't realize you were literally mentally challenged.

[iamthetot@sh.itjust.works]

Most importantly, the ones who didn't turn out to vote were in states that don't matter anyway. Harris actually got more votes than Biden in most key swing states.

[slopppyengineer@lemmy.world]

comments like this one imply those people thought Palestine would be saved by not voting for Dems

Reps calling him genocide Joe was indeed implying this

[iamthetot@sh.itjust.works]

Yeah people keep saying "this is just a distraction" to, like, very single story. So what are they distracting from? Please tell us, because all of it is fucking awful.

[the_terrible_humbaba@slrpnk.net]

We're not talking about Reps though. We are talking about people who would usually vote for Dems, but because of their stance on Palestine either didn't vote or voted third party. Can you show me examples of people on Lemmy who voted third party or abstained that said Reps would be better for Palestinians?

[modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world]

All his billionaire crones are going to be pissed. Think of all the jobs that will create. How will they be able to abuse the average worker when thier aren't enough of them to go around. It's going to drive up wages. And the investment capital that goes to gaza isn't going to the billionaires tech companies.
Sooner or later, one of them is going to off him.

[filister@lemmy.world]

Mind you this is only his 16th day in the office. What a rollercoaster of 4 years there would be.

[werefreeatlast@lemmy.world]

I heard that there's an episode of the Simpsons on this.

[savaran@lemmy.world]

Everywhere will be a state!

Well except Puerto Rico, for some odd reason the one place that could reasonably become a state isn’t on the list.

[theherk@lemmy.world]

No party loyalist will ever admit the party is in any way culpable for its own losses.

[orclev@lemmy.world]

Well, for point 2, they were kind of right. It's mostly a self fulfilling prophecy, but when a sizable chunk of your voting block says "take this position if you want my vote" and then you take the opposite position it really shouldn't come as a surprise if you subsequently lose the election. That 100% was on Harris.

Whether Harris would have been better than Trump is perhaps a more interesting question. Ultimately Israel is going to be using their own troops for this not US troops because US troops aren't going to go along with gunning down unarmed civilians in mass the way the Israeli troops will. Whether it's Trump or Harris that wasn't going to change. The biggest difference is just one of political posturing. Harris would have made disapproving statements and basically said "we're very disappointed in Israel" while still sending the exact same weapons and funds Trump is sending. Maybe Israel would have played things more low key, maybe not, we'll never know now. So point 1 is kind of a wash.

Point 3 is really a more abstract moral question I suppose. At what point does something cross over into "supporting genocide". Does sending money to the Israeli government count? What about doing business with companies that do so? What about having the power to do something about it and instead choosing to do nothing? I think we can all agree that Trump absolutely supports genocide. The argument for if Harris did is far less concrete, and for people who voted for Harris (or I guess Trump for that matter) more nebulous still.

The real problem ultimately though is that none of this existed in a vacuum. If this was literally a referendum on how the US should respond to Israel that would be one thing, but that was such a tiny slice of a much bigger discussion. The biggest and most concerning of which was Trump essentially admitting that he was planning on staging a coup of the US government which meant no matter how the Gaza situation was going to play our Trump absolutely could not be let anywhere near the office of the president.

The election is over though, Harris lost because she ran a shit campaign on proven losing policy. People need to get over that and focus on actually dealing with the shit sandwich we've collectively been handed instead of continuing to point fingers and argue about whose fault it was.

[the_terrible_humbaba@slrpnk.net]

Kamala vocally supported an end to the war

She also said she was unwavering in her support for Israel and would keep arming them.

Remember when Trump said he would lower the prices of groceries? Do you judge him on that, or on his actions? Why is it different for Kamala and Dems?

You know, "empathy" isn't just "I feel bad for people sometimes!". Empathy is the ability to place your self in other people's shoes. So now let's practice some empathy. Imagine you are Palestinian, and you live in Gaza. Israel has bombed your neighbourhood with American bombs. Aid has been withheld from you and your family. Other hospitals and aid workers have been bombed by American bombs. Journalists are being shot with American supplied weapons and ammo. Some of your neighbours or friends - who weren't killed - have been captured and are being raped.

Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - what fucking difference does it make that Kamala "vocally supported an end to the war"?

Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I've asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn't just vague abstract BS like "but Trump said".

It seriously astonishes me that the one situation where there is no difference between Reps and Dems (except for the words they use while doing the same thing), is the one situation people decide to shout about how much better Dems would be than Reps.

[woodscientist@sh.itjust.works]

The real failure of the Democrats wasn't even on Gaza. The day Biden won the election, I was saying that it didn't matter, and that Trump or a similar Republican would be back in power in 2024. Why? Because it was abundantly obvious, even then, well before Gaza, that he wasn't going to do the things that needed to be done to keep Trump out of power.

The 2020 election was the anomaly. DNC milquetoast centrism is a dead philosophy and has been politically nonviable since 2012 at the latest. Biden only won by a fluke in 2020 because Trump managed to so massively screw up the covid response. If covid hadn't happened, or if Trump hadn't actively screwed it up so much, he would have won in 2020.

Biden represents a philosophy that voters have rejected again and again. Yet the Democrats will never fucking learn.

Even if by some miracle Kamala had won, all that would have changed was that Trump or another fascist would have won in 2028, because again, she wasn't going to do anything substantial.

People ultimately didn't even stay home just because of Gaza. They stayed home because they were tired of voting for a failed party again and again, election after election, because "democracy was on the line."

Here's a hard fucking truth about democracy. For most people, democracy hasn't been worth jack shit. Remember, the bottom 90% of the country doesn't actually live in a democracy and hasn't for decades. US democracy died a long time ago. People just got tired of propping up the facade and decided to finally let the rotten edifice collapse.

Want someone to blame for the current Trump term? Blame Biden for appointing Merrick fucking Garland. And it's clear that even now, the Democratic leadership hasn't learned a damn thing. The Democratic Party needs to be burned to ashes. It is irredeemable.

[woodscientist@sh.itjust.works]

Kamala didn't lose because of Palestine. She lost because DNC centrism has been a political dead end since at least 2012. 2020 was the anomaly; Trump only lost because of Covid.

Centrists are just using the Palestine issue as a scapegoat for their own failures. Kamala/Biden was doomed long before Palestine.

[uniquethrowagay@feddit.org]

Okay first of all, a lot more, maybe all Palestinians will be killed under Trump.

Second of all, the Trump regime will completely dismantle the US. They've already started. People like you (presumably) didn't show up to vote democrat for some vague moral win in Palestine that doesn't have any real world implications. Even if the situation in Palestine were exactly the same under Harris and Trump. Millions of people all over the world will suffer because of Trump's decisions. Queer people, immigrants, women, poor people are going to fucking die because of Trump.

[slopppyengineer@lemmy.world]

Asking for such evidence is a classic manipulation technique of conservatives and will be discarded as untrue anyway the moment it's delivered.