In shock announcement, Trump says U.S. wants to take over Gaza Strip

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Well, for point 2, they were kind of right. It's mostly a self fulfilling prophecy, but when a sizable chunk of your voting block says "take this position if you want my vote" and then you take the opposite position it really shouldn't come as a surprise if you subsequently lose the election. That 100% was on Harris.

Whether Harris would have been better than Trump is perhaps a more interesting question. Ultimately Israel is going to be using their own troops for this not US troops because US troops aren't going to go along with gunning down unarmed civilians in mass the way the Israeli troops will. Whether it's Trump or Harris that wasn't going to change. The biggest difference is just one of political posturing. Harris would have made disapproving statements and basically said "we're very disappointed in Israel" while still sending the exact same weapons and funds Trump is sending. Maybe Israel would have played things more low key, maybe not, we'll never know now. So point 1 is kind of a wash.

Point 3 is really a more abstract moral question I suppose. At what point does something cross over into "supporting genocide". Does sending money to the Israeli government count? What about doing business with companies that do so? What about having the power to do something about it and instead choosing to do nothing? I think we can all agree that Trump absolutely supports genocide. The argument for if Harris did is far less concrete, and for people who voted for Harris (or I guess Trump for that matter) more nebulous still.

The real problem ultimately though is that none of this existed in a vacuum. If this was literally a referendum on how the US should respond to Israel that would be one thing, but that was such a tiny slice of a much bigger discussion. The biggest and most concerning of which was Trump essentially admitting that he was planning on staging a coup of the US government which meant no matter how the Gaza situation was going to play our Trump absolutely could not be let anywhere near the office of the president.

The election is over though, Harris lost because she ran a shit campaign on proven losing policy. People need to get over that and focus on actually dealing with the shit sandwich we've collectively been handed instead of continuing to point fingers and argue about whose fault it was.

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Kamala vocally supported an end to the war

She also said she was unwavering in her support for Israel and would keep arming them.

Remember when Trump said he would lower the prices of groceries? Do you judge him on that, or on his actions? Why is it different for Kamala and Dems?

You know, "empathy" isn't just "I feel bad for people sometimes!". Empathy is the ability to place your self in other people's shoes. So now let's practice some empathy. Imagine you are Palestinian, and you live in Gaza. Israel has bombed your neighbourhood with American bombs. Aid has been withheld from you and your family. Other hospitals and aid workers have been bombed by American bombs. Journalists are being shot with American supplied weapons and ammo. Some of your neighbours or friends - who weren't killed - have been captured and are being raped.

Now tell me - keeping that state of mind and empathy - what fucking difference does it make that Kamala "vocally supported an end to the war"?

Can you tell me right now - concretely and materialistically, no vague bullshit - how things were/would be better for Palestinians under the Dems? I've asked this question so many times and have never gotten an answer that wasn't just vague abstract BS like "but Trump said".

It seriously astonishes me that the one situation where there is no difference between Reps and Dems (except for the words they use while doing the same thing), is the one situation people decide to shout about how much better Dems would be than Reps.

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The real failure of the Democrats wasn't even on Gaza. The day Biden won the election, I was saying that it didn't matter, and that Trump or a similar Republican would be back in power in 2024. Why? Because it was abundantly obvious, even then, well before Gaza, that he wasn't going to do the things that needed to be done to keep Trump out of power.

The 2020 election was the anomaly. DNC milquetoast centrism is a dead philosophy and has been politically nonviable since 2012 at the latest. Biden only won by a fluke in 2020 because Trump managed to so massively screw up the covid response. If covid hadn't happened, or if Trump hadn't actively screwed it up so much, he would have won in 2020.

Biden represents a philosophy that voters have rejected again and again. Yet the Democrats will never fucking learn.

Even if by some miracle Kamala had won, all that would have changed was that Trump or another fascist would have won in 2028, because again, she wasn't going to do anything substantial.

People ultimately didn't even stay home just because of Gaza. They stayed home because they were tired of voting for a failed party again and again, election after election, because "democracy was on the line."

Here's a hard fucking truth about democracy. For most people, democracy hasn't been worth jack shit. Remember, the bottom 90% of the country doesn't actually live in a democracy and hasn't for decades. US democracy died a long time ago. People just got tired of propping up the facade and decided to finally let the rotten edifice collapse.

Want someone to blame for the current Trump term? Blame Biden for appointing Merrick fucking Garland. And it's clear that even now, the Democratic leadership hasn't learned a damn thing. The Democratic Party needs to be burned to ashes. It is irredeemable.

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Kamala didn't lose because of Palestine. She lost because DNC centrism has been a political dead end since at least 2012. 2020 was the anomaly; Trump only lost because of Covid.

Centrists are just using the Palestine issue as a scapegoat for their own failures. Kamala/Biden was doomed long before Palestine.

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Okay first of all, a lot more, maybe all Palestinians will be killed under Trump.

Second of all, the Trump regime will completely dismantle the US. They've already started. People like you (presumably) didn't show up to vote democrat for some vague moral win in Palestine that doesn't have any real world implications. Even if the situation in Palestine were exactly the same under Harris and Trump. Millions of people all over the world will suffer because of Trump's decisions. Queer people, immigrants, women, poor people are going to fucking die because of Trump.

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Asking for such evidence is a classic manipulation technique of conservatives and will be discarded as untrue anyway the moment it's delivered.

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Its not shocking because he told us this plan last month.

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This is so fitting it's uncanny

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Kamala/Biden were already losing before the Palestine conflict started. Palestine did not cause Kamala to lose the election. She could have used Palestine as a signal that she intended to truly strike out in a new direction, but she chose not to do that.

Unfortunately, that kind of radical break from the past was the only hope any Democrat had in 2024. People have this weird view that 2024 is an anomaly. It's not. 2020 was the anomaly. Trump only lost in 2020 because of covid. If not for covid, Trump would have easily won in 2020.

You might as well be blaming Gaza for the Libertarian party not winning. The existing Democratic party is as nonviable at the presidential level as the Libertarian party is. The current Democratic leadership is fundamentally incapable of winning a national presidential election. They literally are not capable of it. They got lucky in 2020 due to a disaster of historic proportions, but in normal times, they are not capable of wielding a candidate that will win a presidential election.

Only radical change and reform in the DNC can change this. And this is ultimately why scapegoating the handful of people who actually stayed home due to Gaza is counterproductive. If you think Kamala lost in 2024 due to Gaza, you're going to be sorely, sorely disappointed in 2028 when another DNC centrist fails to win, even when the Gaza issue is no longer on the table.

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Off course, how convenient for you.

I'm a Socialist btw, but go on with your excuses.

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Okay first of all, a lot more, maybe all Palestinians will be killed under Trump.

Again, completely vague. But while we're at it, how is that different from Dems? Have you been living under a rock? They were actively bombing, shooting, raping, and killing medicals workers in Palestine. So what do you base that "difference" on? The fact Trump said he supported it instead of "only" helping it happen?

Second of all: thanks for demonstrating the lack of intellect and thinking in these type of discussions. I literally said in my first comment that Trump was worse for America. I literally said you could be saying this shit in any thread that isn't about Palestine, and it would make a lot more sense. And yet, here you fucking are, trying to lecture me about how Trump is worse for America, as if I hadn't already fucking said it and my question was specifically about how it affects Palestine. Why are you even arguing with people if you don't even bother to read what they say?

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Exactly. The truth is that the current DNC is utterly incapable of actually winning a presidential election, and they have been incapable of it for more than a decade. 2020 was an anomaly; they won only due to covid. Fixating on Gaza will only ensure that the fundamental mistakes aren't corrected and that Republicans win again in 2028.

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Ok, so there was no difference between them on this genocide.

Guess Trump should have been stopped for other reasons.

Too late now. Enjoy the fascism.

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Yes. Verdant Banana.

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You're one of those "once genocide starts, it can't get worse" people, aren't you?

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How about admitting that the party is culpable and the people who said not to vote for them or people who didn't vote at all are also culpable, because the world isn't black and white and there's plenty of blame to go around?

No?

Black and white world?

Cool.

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Trump is a real estate guy. That's why he wants Canada and Greenland: lots of undeveloped real estate. Never mind that the reason for this is given by being non-developable.

And now Gaza: he actually thinks that he just has to move a few million people somewhere, and turn it into his personal luxury resort.

Do you want another 9/11? That's how you get another 9/11.

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It's equally fascinating how people like you think that only one group can be to blame for an electoral loss and that blame can't be shared.

And if their protest vote changed nothing, what was the point of it?

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What have you actually done about this genocide aside from not making the effort to vote for someone?

Have you made any phone calls? Written any emails? Visited any politicians' offices?

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Mars should be on that list

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In shock announcement, Trump says U.S. wants to take over Gaza Strip