In shock announcement, Trump says U.S. wants to take over Gaza Strip

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Do you think maybe if you have to blame everyone else for not understanding you, you're blaming the wrong party?

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The distraction is currently no doubt from the takeing over of certain essential government agencies, hollowing them out, getting rid of anyone critical of the new regime.

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I will say that the Democratic Party is not doing enough. They're fucking confirming positions and going with the flow. The leadership is failing and needs to wake up but there is a lot they can do within the legal system. The Nazis, when they took over, did everything legally at first. People need to push back but there's just... no pushback. AOC is screaming and actually getting stuff done to an extent but so few other people are. The leader of the Dems in the house tweeted basically "Jesus take the wheel" which isn't a GREAT stance.

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The election is over though, Harris lost because she ran a shit campaign on proven losing policy. People need to get over that and focus on actually dealing with the shit sandwich we've collectively been handed instead of continuing to point fingers and argue about whose fault it was.

I mean this with all sincerity: fuck off.
Arguing that letting this and everything else happen is better than what Harris brought to the table doesn't just get forgotten because the people who said this would be better are upset they were wrong and don't want to be blamed.

The "winning policy" is evidently "ethnic cleansing". That's what came of all this, do you get that? Milquetoast ceasefire and continuing the slow push towards a two state solution lost to ethnic cleansing.

Whether it's Trump or Harris that wasn't going to change. The biggest difference is just one of political posturing.

Trump has already increased the weapons being sent, rolling back a Biden administration block on certain weapons. You can't just say "no, they won't use US troops" when we're on an article about trump wanting to use US troops for ethnic cleansing. Why do you think Israel gets a say in what troops go in? It's not like they can stop US if we want to send ours in. Why do you think American troops wouldn't do these things?

We're not at the hypothetical stage here. There have already been concrete changes in policy that are beyond "posturing".

The real problem ultimately though is that none of this existed in a vacuum. If this was literally a referendum on how the US should respond to Israel that would be one thing, but that was such a tiny slice of a much bigger discussion.

Yes, and that's exactly the point. Even if their policies on Gaza were exactly the same, which they very much were not, it would still be better to have voted for Harris because of so many reasons, none of which mattered to the people who swore to not vote for her over Gaza.

This is being civil about things. We're not saying that the people who refused Harris because of Gaza are transphobic, antivax, anti-education, anti abortion, racist misogynists, even though supporting Harris evidently makes one a genocidal racist in their eyes.

Maybe if people said "you know what? Maybe I made a mistake" there wouldn't be such animosity, but here we are. Better a mask off fascist than an imperfect compromise.

And don't worry, I am doing what I can to deal with the shit sandwich they wanted us to have. That doesn't keep me from having the ability, nor seeing the need for, needling people who thought that this would be better for Gaza than what Harris wanted.

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Did you read any of what you linked?

I've now read the entirety of the first 2 links, and have not seen a single mention of how Trump would be better for Palestine. If I'm wrong then please provide the quotes where they said Trump would be better.

All that is being said is that people feel disfranchised by the Dems and Kamala. Please actually read what's there and stop seeing what you want to see. In fact the second link straight says:

I’m still voting for Harris, on the basis that change from public pressure is far more unlikely under Trump.

And they literally say it's illogical to vote for Trump:

Despite Trump’s horrendous track record, he has gained in their support solely because of how Harris has campaigned. It’s not logical, but it’s hard to be when directly affected by the actions of the current administration and no prospect for change.

On the third I just did CTRL+F for "trump", and there was nothing about him in regard to Palestine. I didn't even bother with the 4th.

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Turns out the only moral genocide is Democrat genocide. The millisecond Republicans do it we can suddenly all agree that it's abhorrent and there are no excuses for our part in it.

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Irl, I do see hear complaints about non-voters. Fewer of them on lemmy, where words were aimed mostly at voter disenfranchisement efforts, but I did see them during the election.

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I hear what you're trying to say, but honestly no. Not when I've been hearing that American literacy has been going down and most college kids nowadays can't even read a whole book; and not when I mention several times that Trump is worse for Americans - and I even made an explicit mention of Trump censoring scientists, which is a case where he banned words such as "LGBTQ+" from scientific papers - and then someone replied lecturing me about how much worse Trump would be for Trans people and Americans. Like, yeah, no shit, I said that.

I think people just saw I disagreed with whatever stance they had and got angry, got even angrier when they saw how much of an ass I was being (in my defence, I wasn't an ass first, and I was sick of reading the same fucking comment under every Palestine thread) and just skimmed most of what I said and proceed to try to argue with me without even trying to understand what I said.

Which frankly makes these conversations exhausting for me, because I'm actually trying to read what people are saying and replying, but most replies I get seem to not put any effort in turn.

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People like you, are why I moved away.

Sure you could just be another Russian troll.

But I knew way too many fucking idiots like you in real life too years ago as to know there's a good chance that you're not a troll.

The only consolidation I have is that dumbasses like you will suffer along with the rest, even if not as much as you deserve compared to those who knew better.

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A lot of the people who are defending the DNC are not the ones decrying it.

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Assuming everyone here is American really makes me think you're blaming the wrong party.

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Not really it hasn’t been in the spotlight until Oct7th. That’s when real change can happen.

Not knowing about it/not caring is not an excuse. 1978 Oscars

Two people stomping at you, one pulls out a knife and says ‘lets get this vermin and his family too’. There is a clear difference.

That change in the analogy does not work because they were already going after all Palestinians, my dude. So who is the family is this analogy?

Put it this way. (...) Which is worse?

Clearly you and I just disagree on a fundamental level. I don't care what noises someone makes with their mouth while committing heinous acts, and I do not see a moral difference between committing a genocide and arming the people that you know are committing a genocide. Would you also make excuses for the people who knowingly worked with Nazis and made weapons for them?

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Well, I got lambasted for not being American and having an opinion on the topic, and the person who did it got quite highly upvoted. What conclusion would you draw? Plus I also recognize your username and (while I'm not 100% sure) I'm pretty confident you are American too. And to my knowledge Americans made up the bulk of Lemmy. Seems like a safe assumption to make ‍️

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I am a dual national and I am currently in Blackburn, Lancashire, UK.

But I think that you have shown that you care much more about being right than you do about being understood, so I think I can move on.

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That's just a sound bite. Trump just said it, nothing is being done to bring it about.
What is being done is systematically gutting and disabling key government departments and seizing control over the treasury and hiring process, without any legal basis.

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But I think that you have shown that you care much more about being right than you do about being understood,

Why do people always love to project so much

I made it explicitly clear I thought Trump was worse several times. I could not have been more clear if I had made a drawing. And I know that you realized that, because at one point your tone completely changed, and you got a lot less condescending and confrontational than you had been before. But you still can't just say "my bad, sorry, I just had a knee-jerk reaction when you criticized the Dems".

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You ask for a concrete action when we are no more than 16 days in. Ok let’s ignore that and pretend you are acting in good faith.

Weapon shipments that had been blocked have been released
After the Gaza ceasefire Israel has opened an offensive on the Westbank
Words of a US president have a meaning if they are not directly felt on the ground. For instance, Trump has made it clear today that he will not oppose an ethnic cleansing operation in Gaza (and likely the same for the Westbank).

Let me ask you a question in return. It is my impression that you suffer from confirmation bias where you sat out the election because both sides were equally bad. I therefore think it would be good for you if you set a threshold. At what point will you accept that Trump is really worse than Kamala would have been?

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What makes you think nothing is being done to bring it about? How could you possibly know?

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Once again the evil person is given a free pass here while you deride those who chose another path. These evil people have deluded you into thinking that every problem is a trolley problem to the point that you're supporting genocide while trying to claim the moral high ground. Explain that logic...

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I knew it will end up like this when protest non-voters said they won't vote for "Holocaust Harris"...

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In shock announcement, Trump says U.S. wants to take over Gaza Strip