In shock announcement, Trump says U.S. wants to take over Gaza Strip

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Assuming everyone here is American really makes me think you're blaming the wrong party.

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Not really it hasn’t been in the spotlight until Oct7th. That’s when real change can happen.

Not knowing about it/not caring is not an excuse. 1978 Oscars

Two people stomping at you, one pulls out a knife and says ‘lets get this vermin and his family too’. There is a clear difference.

That change in the analogy does not work because they were already going after all Palestinians, my dude. So who is the family is this analogy?

Put it this way. (...) Which is worse?

Clearly you and I just disagree on a fundamental level. I don't care what noises someone makes with their mouth while committing heinous acts, and I do not see a moral difference between committing a genocide and arming the people that you know are committing a genocide. Would you also make excuses for the people who knowingly worked with Nazis and made weapons for them?

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Well, I got lambasted for not being American and having an opinion on the topic, and the person who did it got quite highly upvoted. What conclusion would you draw? Plus I also recognize your username and (while I'm not 100% sure) I'm pretty confident you are American too. And to my knowledge Americans made up the bulk of Lemmy. Seems like a safe assumption to make ‍️

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I am a dual national and I am currently in Blackburn, Lancashire, UK.

But I think that you have shown that you care much more about being right than you do about being understood, so I think I can move on.

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That's just a sound bite. Trump just said it, nothing is being done to bring it about.
What is being done is systematically gutting and disabling key government departments and seizing control over the treasury and hiring process, without any legal basis.

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But I think that you have shown that you care much more about being right than you do about being understood,

Why do people always love to project so much

I made it explicitly clear I thought Trump was worse several times. I could not have been more clear if I had made a drawing. And I know that you realized that, because at one point your tone completely changed, and you got a lot less condescending and confrontational than you had been before. But you still can't just say "my bad, sorry, I just had a knee-jerk reaction when you criticized the Dems".

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You ask for a concrete action when we are no more than 16 days in. Ok let’s ignore that and pretend you are acting in good faith.

Weapon shipments that had been blocked have been released
After the Gaza ceasefire Israel has opened an offensive on the Westbank
Words of a US president have a meaning if they are not directly felt on the ground. For instance, Trump has made it clear today that he will not oppose an ethnic cleansing operation in Gaza (and likely the same for the Westbank).

Let me ask you a question in return. It is my impression that you suffer from confirmation bias where you sat out the election because both sides were equally bad. I therefore think it would be good for you if you set a threshold. At what point will you accept that Trump is really worse than Kamala would have been?

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What makes you think nothing is being done to bring it about? How could you possibly know?

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Once again the evil person is given a free pass here while you deride those who chose another path. These evil people have deluded you into thinking that every problem is a trolley problem to the point that you're supporting genocide while trying to claim the moral high ground. Explain that logic...

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I knew it will end up like this when protest non-voters said they won't vote for "Holocaust Harris"...

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And plenty more were sent by Dems over the years.
I've already linked to these in this thread, but it's depressing that anyone is making that argument anyway:

July 2023

Also, wiki page on the occupation of the West Bank

As I said in another comment: two people stomp on you; one calls you a slur, the other says they want the violence to end, but neither stops stomping on you. What does it matter what they say?

And you have a very bad impression. As I have mentioned several times:

I'm not American (therefore I can't "sit out the election"); I have made it clear several times that Trump is much worse than Kamala in everyway except Palestine; I never (and I encourage you to go through my Lemmy history if you don't believe me) never told anyone to not vote for Kamala - in fact I once even said she might be the most left leaning American president in a long time; and I have also argued with a lot of Trumpists online.

So, to put it mildly, your impression of me is off.

At what point will you accept that Trump is really worse than Kamala would have been?

For Palestine specifically? I'm not sure he can be. Would the Nazis have been better if instead of putting people in concentration camps they just shot them in the streets, bombed them, and starved them? If you believe so, then you could make an argument that concentration camps would be the threshold; but personally I'm not convinced there is much of a difference.

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You could have stopped Biden at any time since October 2023

How?

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Yeah the shooting in Sweden is getting buried by news like this. Not that the situation in Gaza isn’t terrible or that the US isn’t a terrible country to be in, but stil

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The US shouldn’t be considered a single country. The EU has way more in common between it’s members and acts more like one country than the US.

Breaking it up in 50 different states is probably gonna cause a war I see that.

Slowly the US (which has been a terrible country for a lot of people) is dying and pulling others down. The US has pushed it’s bullshit into way to many countries it is not even funny.

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I was well aware of it. Talking about the global spotlight. MSM coverage. That is when real change is possible.

That change in the analogy does not work because they were already going after all Palestinians, my dude. So who is the family is this analogy?

Well, they weren't. They ramped up settlements in the west bank, using the tricks they learned in Gaza, and now are going to ethnically clense the entire population of gaza. The analogy holds.

Clearly you and I just disagree on a fundamental level. I don’t care what noises someone makes with their mouth while committing heinous acts, and I do not see a moral difference between committing a genocide and arming the people that you know are committing a genocide. Would you also make excuses for the people who knowingly worked with Nazis and made weapons for them?

Well there is a difference, of course. Not everything is binary, there is always nuance. I'd tell you to vote for the nazi' if they were running against a worse oponent, yes. Just like I'd suggest voting for Trump if he was running against Hitler.

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To hear him speak of it, there's nothing left to bomb.

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Yeah, I'm not from or in the US which is why my question was mostly about what I've seen online and some media snippets. I have no idea about IRL sentiment, though I assume it varies like with everything.

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I honestly don't think division is the intention of most folks like myself, I think it's a venting of frustration and an honest plea for people to reflect on the past so that history doesn't repeat itself immediately.

Maybe some people want an apology, but that sounds silly. Personally I just want to see reflection and a commitment to avoiding the same issue going forward. Cause I'm gonna be blunt, it's impossible to please everyone in a 2 party system, and I guarantee you the Democrats are going to disappoint you next time, but can we agree that they are better than the alternative? And can we embrace the reality of the 2 party system while we strive to improve it?

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See, that's kind of what I'm talking about. Based on the results I've seen, all the votes for independent candidates combined amounted to less than 2% of all counted votes. Do you really think those 2% had a bigger impact on the end result than the 90 or so million of people who didn't vote at all?

I'm not saying they had no impact, it just feels weird to focus so much on those who cared enough to take part in the democratic process while treating the rest as a secondary issue.

To clarify, this is just my observation based on internet comments and some news snippets I've seen. I understand things might look different IRL and from a perspective of someone in the middle of this madness.

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Shock

To people who weren't paying attention probably

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In shock announcement, Trump says U.S. wants to take over Gaza Strip