Palestinians starve as Israel continues full ban on humanitarian aid
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On Wednesday, the UN aid coordination office, OCHA, said in its latest update that Israel’s ban on entry of aid has continued for nearly a month and that no aid entered the enclave throughout this period. All requests by humanitarian agencies to coordinate access with Israeli authorities have been denied.
Helles recalled when the blockade was imposed. The shops were empty within hours, and what was left was too expensive, she said. Even the charity distributions, which once offered a variety of meals, have dwindled, now providing only small servings of rice at the time of Iftar.
After days of eating little more than rice, Huda couldn’t sleep at night, suffering from severe stomach pain and colic. She was diagnosed with a stomach infection two weeks ago.
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After seeing how Hamas is torturing and executing Palestinians who protest against them, while Israel is bad they may as well share responsibility for this most recent conflict.
Damn the IDF is executing Palestinians who protest against them?
Oh wait they did that in 2017 in broad daylight.
If only there was any evidence for Hamas doing it. The 4k projector must be on again.
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Read this New Yorker interview of a Hamas leader. Palestinians tried everything the “right” way. They engaged in nonviolent protest and were shot by the IDF. They went to the UN and Israel called it “diplomatic terrorism” and sanctioned the PA. They offered deep concessions to move forward on a two state solution and Netanyahu refused with no counter offer. They called for new elections and were blocked. There was really no way to left to resist Israel peacefully.
“We rolled down all of the pathways to get some of our rights—not all of them. We knocked on the door of reconciliation and we weren’t allowed in. We knocked on the door of elections and we were deprived of them. We knocked on the door of a political document for the whole world—we said, ‘We want peace, but give us some of our rights’—but they didn’t let us in.” He added, “We tried every path. We didn’t find one political path to take us out of this morass and free us from occupation.”
Palestinians tried everything the “right” way.
I’m well aware - have been following this conflict for 40 years, generally siding with the Palestinians. I will say however that no one has done such a clean job of “trying it the right way” as you make out here. It’s been far more morally grey from the start.
But let’s accept your point and the language you’re establishing here. They tried everything the right way. Now they’re trying everything the wrong way. It’s like I said: they stopped waiting for the world’s moral outrage to save them, went it alone, and have played it as dirty as they think they need to. Understandable. Predictable.
They don’t need me to think it’s excusable, and it happens that I don’t. They’ve discarded any hope of moral rectitude and are simply trying to win the fight in practical terms by whatever means available. They’re not trying to be right, they’re trying to be effective - to control land, repel Israel, and help Palestinians.
How would you say they’re doing?
Instead of quibbling over whether suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism are orally excusable, judge them by their effectiveness on behalf of the Palestinians.
It’s hard to say what their condition would be without the suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and hostage takings over the last 20 years since the second intifada. No one knows what would have happened in an alternate reality where they continued doing things “the right way.”
But from what I see, “the wrong way” is not only wrong but ineffective. The October attacks have succeeded at the impossible: restoring Israel’s moral standing in the eyes of the world. If the west were silently complicit before, they are actively and vociferously complicit now. Gaza is nearly sanitized of all life. There isn’t even a bargaining table at which to give everything away at. Palestinians are being erased from existence.
So maybe, just maybe, on “effectiveness” grounds, these tactics are a practical failure as much as they are a moral evil.
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Damn the IDF is executing Palestinians who protest against them?
Oh wait they did that in 2017 in broad daylight.
If only there was any evidence for Hamas doing it. The 4k projector must be on again.
Yes, yes, idk how many cam phones are in Gaza these days but imagine far fewer than before.
Don’t forget this latest conflict started because Hamas raided an Israeli concert for hostages and were always throwing so many missiles as Israel they invented and built the most advanced missile defense system in the world.
Here’s how I see it, Jews shouldn’t have been given Israel after WW2 because it was already settled but it happened. When the Jews won the wars to hold Israel, the Palestinians never accepted defeat and because of it, never made peace. Because they never made peace and have lived for vengeance for decades, they are now doomed.
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Palestinians tried everything the “right” way.
I’m well aware - have been following this conflict for 40 years, generally siding with the Palestinians. I will say however that no one has done such a clean job of “trying it the right way” as you make out here. It’s been far more morally grey from the start.
But let’s accept your point and the language you’re establishing here. They tried everything the right way. Now they’re trying everything the wrong way. It’s like I said: they stopped waiting for the world’s moral outrage to save them, went it alone, and have played it as dirty as they think they need to. Understandable. Predictable.
They don’t need me to think it’s excusable, and it happens that I don’t. They’ve discarded any hope of moral rectitude and are simply trying to win the fight in practical terms by whatever means available. They’re not trying to be right, they’re trying to be effective - to control land, repel Israel, and help Palestinians.
How would you say they’re doing?
Instead of quibbling over whether suicide bombings and other acts of terrorism are orally excusable, judge them by their effectiveness on behalf of the Palestinians.
It’s hard to say what their condition would be without the suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and hostage takings over the last 20 years since the second intifada. No one knows what would have happened in an alternate reality where they continued doing things “the right way.”
But from what I see, “the wrong way” is not only wrong but ineffective. The October attacks have succeeded at the impossible: restoring Israel’s moral standing in the eyes of the world. If the west were silently complicit before, they are actively and vociferously complicit now. Gaza is nearly sanitized of all life. There isn’t even a bargaining table at which to give everything away at. Palestinians are being erased from existence.
So maybe, just maybe, on “effectiveness” grounds, these tactics are a practical failure as much as they are a moral evil.
They’ve discarded any hope of moral rectitude and are simply trying to win the fight in practical terms by whatever means available.
Children. Are. Dying.
Standing on principle for decades is good, but you cannot ask people to watch whole families die and do nothing. Israel shooting and killing hundreds of unarmed protestors with no consequences from the rest of the world showed that it will never work. You ask about effectiveness, Israel showed that they won’t allow nonviolent protest, they lock up moderate politicians and fund extremists, and make any sort of peaceful reconciliation impossible. The large majority of Israelis and Palestinians who want peace are actively blocked by the Netanyahu government. It’s nice to tell people how they should do things from the comfort of your safe home with electricity.
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They’ve discarded any hope of moral rectitude and are simply trying to win the fight in practical terms by whatever means available.
Children. Are. Dying.
Standing on principle for decades is good, but you cannot ask people to watch whole families die and do nothing. Israel shooting and killing hundreds of unarmed protestors with no consequences from the rest of the world showed that it will never work. You ask about effectiveness, Israel showed that they won’t allow nonviolent protest, they lock up moderate politicians and fund extremists, and make any sort of peaceful reconciliation impossible. The large majority of Israelis and Palestinians who want peace are actively blocked by the Netanyahu government. It’s nice to tell people how they should do things from the comfort of your safe home with electricity.
I wish their entire strategy was built around minimizing the number of children dying, but it is clearly not. There is no actor in this picture whose is.
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I wish their entire strategy was built around minimizing the number of children dying, but it is clearly not. There is no actor in this picture whose is.
I’m going to push back on that, Gazans have zero options to prevent children dying. No options at all. They can’t even send them away since Israel won’t let them out. Hamas surrendering won’t save children’s lives. They have no “best” option since even Israeli officials are saying that Arab children are a threat that must be addressed now early or later. There’s no winning against a genocidal threat.
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I’m going to push back on that, Gazans have zero options to prevent children dying. No options at all. They can’t even send them away since Israel won’t let them out. Hamas surrendering won’t save children’s lives. They have no “best” option since even Israeli officials are saying that Arab children are a threat that must be addressed now early or later. There’s no winning against a genocidal threat.
Such selective logic. Their massive terrorist attack has caused such blowback that now they have no good options to minimize child deaths. Maybe the terror attack was not about preventing child deaths? That’s the point here.
I understand you want to champion the Palestinians because they are dreadfully overmatched. But don’t let that whitewash your view of a very grey situation.
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Yes, yes, idk how many cam phones are in Gaza these days but imagine far fewer than before.
Don’t forget this latest conflict started because Hamas raided an Israeli concert for hostages and were always throwing so many missiles as Israel they invented and built the most advanced missile defense system in the world.
Here’s how I see it, Jews shouldn’t have been given Israel after WW2 because it was already settled but it happened. When the Jews won the wars to hold Israel, the Palestinians never accepted defeat and because of it, never made peace. Because they never made peace and have lived for vengeance for decades, they are now doomed.
No this conflict started because Israel violated a ceasefire on March 18 and massacared more than 200 Palestinian children in terror bombings.
There was a ceasefire on March 18. There was no ceasefire on October 7.
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No this conflict started because Israel violated a ceasefire on March 18 and massacared more than 200 Palestinian children in terror bombings.
There was a ceasefire on March 18. There was no ceasefire on October 7.
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I consider the current conflict having started in October 2022 because a lot of these ceasefires feel more like a pause in a war not the end of a war. Wars end with leaders dead or lasting agreements.
No that is not how it works.
Israel accepted a ceasefre leading to a lasting agreement. Then Israel violated it.
The current genocide in Gaza started on 18 March.
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Such selective logic. Their massive terrorist attack has caused such blowback that now they have no good options to minimize child deaths. Maybe the terror attack was not about preventing child deaths? That’s the point here.
I understand you want to champion the Palestinians because they are dreadfully overmatched. But don’t let that whitewash your view of a very grey situation.
It’s so easy for you to criticize from your position of comfort and privilege, but meanwhile YOU have offered no solutions other than to try knocking down everyone else. Palestinian children were dying before the attack and are dying after. Even before October 7, Gazan children were malnourished and food insecure to the point where they are shorter than Palestinians on the other side of the wall. Most have signs of PTSD. Spare me your phony concern if you were doing nothing about it before.
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It’s so easy for you to criticize from your position of comfort and privilege, but meanwhile YOU have offered no solutions other than to try knocking down everyone else. Palestinian children were dying before the attack and are dying after. Even before October 7, Gazan children were malnourished and food insecure to the point where they are shorter than Palestinians on the other side of the wall. Most have signs of PTSD. Spare me your phony concern if you were doing nothing about it before.
It’s a logical fallacy that I have to solve peace in the Middle East before I can evaluate the morality of kidnapping, rape, and murder.
But I do recognize my privilege. Moral qualms and principles are a luxury. Does this make them meaningless? Ceding morality to those locked in a cycle of murder takes us to a dark place.
The Israelis say the same shit you are, frankly. “You would do the same thing if they’d taken your family?” And “easy for you to criticize from the outside.” So this is easy to reflect back at you. Unless you’re sitting in Tel Aviv right now, you’re judging from a privileged place
Like I said, I’ve followed this conflict for 40 years. Casting off moral qualms to engage in a tooth and nail cycle of endless murder is what got everyone here, not what’s going to get them out. Hate cannot drive out hate, said someone less privileged than I.
You can have the final word here. I only ask that you spend it on something other than ad hominem if you can.
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No that is not how it works.
Israel accepted a ceasefre leading to a lasting agreement. Then Israel violated it.
The current genocide in Gaza started on 18 March.
My bad, I thought it was temporary not lasting.
That said I stand by my doubts that this will end without total annihilation on either side. Israel can’t forgive Hamas or Hamas Israel without either side literally changing theirs beliefs and values which ain’t happening.
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My bad, I thought it was temporary not lasting.
That said I stand by my doubts that this will end without total annihilation on either side. Israel can’t forgive Hamas or Hamas Israel without either side literally changing theirs beliefs and values which ain’t happening.
Hamas refused temporary ceasefires multiple times in 2024. The only reason Hamas agreed to this one was the promise of a lasting ceasefire.
Which also contradicts your second argument, Hamas is actively working to reach a peaceful solution. Israel is refusing every attempt and violating ceasefire agreements.
This is not a both sides issue. Only one side is the problem.
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Hamas refused temporary ceasefires multiple times in 2024. The only reason Hamas agreed to this one was the promise of a lasting ceasefire.
Which also contradicts your second argument, Hamas is actively working to reach a peaceful solution. Israel is refusing every attempt and violating ceasefire agreements.
This is not a both sides issue. Only one side is the problem.
I’m sorry but I’ve heard Jews and Palestinians outside of Israel complain about Hamas specifically for a very long time and I can’t believe they genuinely want peace because they still have hostages, considering Israel said this conflict will end when the hostages are released many times now.
Israel is angry at Hamas like they never have been before and it seems to me Hamas only wants peace now because they’re losing and are afraid.
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I’m sorry but I’ve heard Jews and Palestinians outside of Israel complain about Hamas specifically for a very long time and I can’t believe they genuinely want peace because they still have hostages, considering Israel said this conflict will end when the hostages are released many times now.
Israel is angry at Hamas like they never have been before and it seems to me Hamas only wants peace now because they’re losing and are afraid.
Hamas took captives because Israel has 10.000 Palestinian hostages.
Why would Hamas release their captives if Israel does not do the same? Your argument makes no sense. Especially knowing Israel will starve and kill all Palestinians if Hamas has no leverage.
Hamas is very clearly doing everything to achieve peace. Israel is the agressor.
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It’s a logical fallacy that I have to solve peace in the Middle East before I can evaluate the morality of kidnapping, rape, and murder.
But I do recognize my privilege. Moral qualms and principles are a luxury. Does this make them meaningless? Ceding morality to those locked in a cycle of murder takes us to a dark place.
The Israelis say the same shit you are, frankly. “You would do the same thing if they’d taken your family?” And “easy for you to criticize from the outside.” So this is easy to reflect back at you. Unless you’re sitting in Tel Aviv right now, you’re judging from a privileged place
Like I said, I’ve followed this conflict for 40 years. Casting off moral qualms to engage in a tooth and nail cycle of endless murder is what got everyone here, not what’s going to get them out. Hate cannot drive out hate, said someone less privileged than I.
You can have the final word here. I only ask that you spend it on something other than ad hominem if you can.
Condescending and concern trolling. Nice. As if I haven’t been following the conflict for decades or spent years studying it in school or multiple trips to both Israel and Palestine and surrounding countries.
I never said moral qualms are a luxury, you’re creating a strawman to beat. I said you’re trolling by pretending that you have a better solution for Palestinians and lambasting them for not following your enlightened opinion from your ivory tower. Hate cannot drive out hate, but Netanyahu’s government is certainly trying their hardest despite decades of failure. What’s going to end the cycle is for the rest of the world to call them out; for the Israeli government pursuing maximalist expansion and deprivation of human rights for millions and oppression of their own citizens. You instead mouth platitudes with your condescension and sound deeply out of touch, belying the claim that you’ve allegedly been following this conflict so closely.
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Different administration controlled by a different party and before they reformulated the Hannibal Directive in 2016.
That said, Hamas probably did make a strategic mistake by thinking Israel would give a shit about its people, but in so doing they also achieved another strategic objective - the heightening of contradictions within Israeli society by showing Israeli citizens how little their government cares about them and how willing it is to kill them for a strategic advantage. They also managed to show the world that Israeli is a rogue state and it has become more isolated than ever before.
We'll see how this works out in the long run, but don't discount Oct 7th as a failure just yet.
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Hamas took captives because Israel has 10.000 Palestinian hostages.
Why would Hamas release their captives if Israel does not do the same? Your argument makes no sense. Especially knowing Israel will starve and kill all Palestinians if Hamas has no leverage.
Hamas is very clearly doing everything to achieve peace. Israel is the agressor.
If you’re talking about the base population of Palestine being held being held captive, maybe Hamas should accepted sovereignty and a two state when it was on the table of using humanitarian funds to build a tunnel network and military headquarters under schools and hospitals they can launch missiles at Israel from.
What Israel is doing is cruel and they are going to reap this karma for decades in not centuries to come but because of the nature of war it is more justifiable to completely annihilate and enemy than to leave them standing given such history, because this enemy does not accept peace, wants global jihad, and is just as zealous if not more than they are sometimes.
According to Sun Tzu, if it gets down to this, when you cannot win against this foe through diplomacy, if you do not crush the enemy entirely they will simply regroup and try again. He learned that during a time in China where kingdoms were being established and genocide wasn’t considered a war crime but a punishment for losing a war without accepting defeat. This what Israel is facing. You could say the times are different but in this way, war never changes.
