Debunking the grey market beyond Steam
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Nobody said anything about Steam keys. They don't let you sell games at lower prices, period.
Also, there is no mention of said policy in either the OP article, nor the separate article about the lawsuit it links to.
Are you being serious, right now? The source isn't 2 clicks away so therefore it doesn't exist? Lawsuits are literally public knowledge. You should inform yourself about a topic before you get into a conversation about it.
Here. Perhaps you can stop defending the billion dollar company now.
As far as I can tell, the lawsuit alleges that steam threatened pulling their (wolfire games) steam sales if they sold elsewhere for cheaper. Which would be bad if true. However, this does not appear to be anywhere in steam's actual seller agreement. The only clause in that agreement is about steam keys being sold for cheaper, which is why the other poster was focusing on that.
That allegation seems to be that steam in practice is threatening things that are outside of the contract itself.
Edit: I read the emails from the lawsuit discovery (page 160–) and it seems like most of them are about steam keys and their policy on that, which seems more reasonable. But there are definitely a few emails that explicitly go beyond that
"You can definitely participate in sales off-
steam, and we don’t want to discourage or prevent that. But in terms of promo visibility, regardless of Steam keys, we do try to think really hard about customers and put ourselves in their shoes. If the game is discounted down to $15 on Steam, and then it goes into a bundle or subscription with ten other games for $6 a few days or weeks later.., that really sucks for the people who bought at the way higher price! Why did you market me a $15 price if the game is actually selling for more like $1 somewhere else? For instance, we’d probably want to avoid running a 50% discount on a game if it was going to be a free giveaway on another store a week later, even if the giveaway had nothing to do with Steam Keys."Which seems pretty straightforward. Some of the other emails also imply that they might choose not to sell the game at all on steam if you do that.
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Only if you are selling a steam key elsewhere
No. That's not true. You're spreading misinformation. Read the fucking lawsuit.
Until the case is concluded, all we have to go on is what Wolfire says. And considering who the head of that developer is, I would not take their word for anything.
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Yes. That is exactly the issue. It's not only Steam Keys either as some of the cultists would have you believe. Valve does require you to offer Steam Keys on other stores at the same price that you offer the game on Steam but that's not all. Now, while they don't specifically forbid you to offer different prices on stores that have nothing to do with Steam, they do reserve the right (do whatever the hell you want with this one simple trick!) to veto pricing on Steam for any reason. This has been historically used by Valve to block games that offer better pricing on competing stores. It goes something like this:
- I make a game and decide I want to make $7 per sale so I publish it on my site at $7.
- I want the game to be accessible to a wider audience so I publish it on other stores.
- Epic takes 12% so I price it at $8 there in order to keep making $7 per sale
- Steam takes 30% so I price it at $10 there for the same reason.
- Valve says $10 isn't a fair price and refuses to elaborate why, reminding me that they reserve the right to veto any price on Steam for any reason.
- I make my game $10 on all other stores
- Valve magically decides $10 was actually a fair price all along and finally publishes the game on Steam.
Wait, not trying to be a "cultist" here, but if Valve requires devs/publishers to "offer Steam Keys on other stores at the same price that you offer the game on Steam", then why do I keep finding Steam Keys much much cheaper elsewhere? Like, all the time...
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Sorry that my mean words hurt you more than Valve abusing you.
You are not the hero here. Just another jerk.
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You are not the hero here. Just another jerk.
Is that supposed to mean something?
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Wait, not trying to be a "cultist" here, but if Valve requires devs/publishers to "offer Steam Keys on other stores at the same price that you offer the game on Steam", then why do I keep finding Steam Keys much much cheaper elsewhere? Like, all the time...
wrote last edited by [email protected]G2A and the likes don't count. I've also taken advantage of the poor economy of the 3rd world to buy cheaper games. You wouldn't ask a watch store why doesn't Rolex force the shady guy in an alley to offer the same prices they do.
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What? That wording isn't even relevant to the case. That's just Valve saying they will do a review of the price changes on Steam. They set out no specific requirements (other than a minimum price of $0.99, but will try to catch errors based on their pricing recommendations). It's similar to how Valve reviews new store pages and provides recommendations to devs on how to improve them. They do have rules against games set up for card farming scams, but that makes sense.
Wolfire's case is about how Valve as an extremely large player is impossible to go around, so game devs have no choice but to accept their 30% fee if they want to reach most of the market out there. Valve then uses these fees to entrench this supposed monopoly position (Wolfire specifically cites the acquisition of WON back in the day, which Valve eventually shut down and merged with Steam).
Wolfire argues that a fair price is much lower than 30%, and that Valve should lower the fee and therefore have less funds to fight their competitors, creating a more competitive environment.
They wording is specifically outlined on the lawsuit along with how it impacts competition. Read the damn thing.
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As far as I can tell, the lawsuit alleges that steam threatened pulling their (wolfire games) steam sales if they sold elsewhere for cheaper. Which would be bad if true. However, this does not appear to be anywhere in steam's actual seller agreement. The only clause in that agreement is about steam keys being sold for cheaper, which is why the other poster was focusing on that.
That allegation seems to be that steam in practice is threatening things that are outside of the contract itself.
Edit: I read the emails from the lawsuit discovery (page 160–) and it seems like most of them are about steam keys and their policy on that, which seems more reasonable. But there are definitely a few emails that explicitly go beyond that
"You can definitely participate in sales off-
steam, and we don’t want to discourage or prevent that. But in terms of promo visibility, regardless of Steam keys, we do try to think really hard about customers and put ourselves in their shoes. If the game is discounted down to $15 on Steam, and then it goes into a bundle or subscription with ten other games for $6 a few days or weeks later.., that really sucks for the people who bought at the way higher price! Why did you market me a $15 price if the game is actually selling for more like $1 somewhere else? For instance, we’d probably want to avoid running a 50% discount on a game if it was going to be a free giveaway on another store a week later, even if the giveaway had nothing to do with Steam Keys."Which seems pretty straightforward. Some of the other emails also imply that they might choose not to sell the game at all on steam if you do that.
Yes. This is exactly what I mean when I say "you're spreading misinformation" in response to all the "iTs OnLy AbOuT tHe KeYs" comments. Kudos for actually informing yourself before butting into a discussion.
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Until the case is concluded, all we have to go on is what Wolfire says. And considering who the head of that developer is, I would not take their word for anything.
Yay. An argument from character. What did the head developer of Wolfire did that hurts its credibility more than... checks notes running an illegal casino for minors?
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G2A and the likes don't count. I've also taken advantage of the poor economy of the 3rd world to buy cheaper games. You wouldn't ask a watch store why doesn't Rolex force the shady guy in an alley to offer the same prices they do.
wrote last edited by [email protected]I was actually thinking places like Humble, or often times I just go straight to the publisher or Dev, since they keep 100% of their profit that way and often offer a discount.
I have never used G2A, nor any site that redistributes keys in that manner.
But in the month it took you to respond, I already read up on this, and honestly you exaggerated your claims to the extent that I'm not really interested in asking your opinion anymore anyway. Your hate boner kinda showed through.
So I guess... uh... thanks for following up anyway and have a good one!
