How can progressive "European patriots" protect Europe from the right-populists who want to destroy Europe as we know it?
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Communication is key, we can take lessons from USA. Their left wing tries to dehumanise their right wing. This backfired tremendously.
So, what we should do would be simply communicate with eachother.
The part that differentiate social democracy from Marxist Leninists is that we do not try to silence people.
Hahahaha, 'the left was mean to the right in the US and now Trump is very angry
, lets not do the same and directly give them power in Europe đ„°'I for too think the problem of US is there is too many Marxist Leninist in it... Damn Marxist Leninist they ruined it
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Fix wealth inequality. Rich people accumulate so much money that there's hardly any left for average people. Rich people hoard assets like houses and increase their prices and the cost of living. As long as we don't fix this, things will get worse. As long as politicians don't fix this other parties will get more popular no matter what they offer.
Migrants are just scapegoats. They have no lobby, they are easy to blame. They are one piece in a bigger equation. They are used as a ruse to distract from bigger problems. If the housing market was functional it could handle the influx of Ukranian refugees and the way smaller number of refugees from countries like Afghanistan or regions like Africa.
If countries had funds from wealth and inheritance taxes they could fund a working administration, faster justice systems, working infrastructure and so on. It would be absolutely beautiful and I cannot say why there isn't a bigger movement for that solution.
It's not about taxing 100.000⏠in stock, or you inheriting your mum's cottage, but about taxing people who have been living off intergenerational wealth for decades without ever working at all.
This is the number one thing. The US collapsed because of inequality. Liberals are out.
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100% unconditional intolerance for fascists. You canât give them a millimeter or theyâll take the entire country.
I suggest watching Thought Slimeâs recent video if you wish to know how to effectively counteract fascists.
The gist is that you shouldnât try to argue with them, they donât care about reality. Donât let them look reasonable by arguing as if they were, insist on pointing out theyâre being assholes (which they are) and that anything they suggest is so obviously wrong it doesnât even need to be explained why itâs wrong (which is true).
This just doesn't have a any connection with reality. You know what you suggest is what has been done for 20 years and it has massively failed? In basically all western countries? Learn from your mistakes or be an idiot.
Make sure that you understand materialism and solidarity grounded in self interest if you want to win the working class. Get rid of idealists and identity politics (unless they're working class or populist identity politics). Get your head around consequential ethics and how to set political priorities.
I recommend studying the 1930s strategy of the Swedish SAP.
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There's a lot of people, at least online, that do not want to engage with the other.
For right wingers it's "lazy/snobby".
For left wingers it's "fascist/nazi/supremacist".
Those ad hominems derail the argumentation and worsen communication.
i'm not talking about the politicians, but the voters.
With social media it has been enlarged. Everyone goes to their own bubble and when someone shares a wrong thought, then that person gets removed from the bubble.
That's the laziest take imaginable with how much it's publicly known that foreign, hostile nations use bot farms (now with AI) and literal armies of trolls to foment anger and polarization online.
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I agree with you a 100% on the wealth issue. Though the number of migrants from the middle east is and will be more problematic for a small country like Austria.
Therefore you need to tackle both problems at once. I'm tired of people ignoring the fact. No country wants to become Libanon 2.0.
No country wants to become Libanon 2.0.
What does that mean?
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And how would you fix wealth inequality, without causing capital flight.
Facotries, houses and even companies can not be easily moved. Even something like a bank needs employees, with certain skills and those have value. You usually can not just move those to another country, unless something really drastic happens.
The other part is to organize. Something like the minimum company tax is a really good starting point. Most large countries have relativly high taxes anyway. The only reason tax heavens work is, because they have a tiny population and the few hundret jobs created by the paperwork are enough to support them. They could easily be bullied into having normal taxes.
Also keep in mind the EU has 1/5 of the global economy by itself.
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The gist is that you shouldnât try to argue with them, they donât care about reality.
That may be true on a face to face level. In public, like on social media, it's essential to keep arguing. Not to convince the person you're arguing with, but to show other people reading that theirs is not the only perspective, nor is it the majority.
While you're right, it's incredibly frustrating when it's near-impossible to convince onlookers on how the fascists operate on complete bad faith and we really should just not give them any time of day at all and ban them
I've had great difficulties in convincing people to stop giving them the benefit of the doubt, leading to the fascists further exploiting it for their own gain
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That's the laziest take imaginable with how much it's publicly known that foreign, hostile nations use bot farms (now with AI) and literal armies of trolls to foment anger and polarization online.
Aight, why do you think half the country voted for trump. What were their reasons
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Capital canât flee. The money is all bound in assets. How you gonna move the houses out of Europe?
China doesnât allow me to own 100M USD worth of assets and live abroad without paying any tax. Why do we?
You do pay taxes in the EU if you own assets in the EU.
China taxes quite a lot less than the EU I'm sure. Otherwise nobody would have built their factories there.
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Hahahaha, 'the left was mean to the right in the US and now Trump is very angry
, lets not do the same and directly give them power in Europe đ„°'I for too think the problem of US is there is too many Marxist Leninist in it... Damn Marxist Leninist they ruined it
The thing you should take from this, is that when you keep antagonising people, they will hate you.
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I agree with you a 100% on the wealth issue. Though the number of migrants from the middle east is and will be more problematic for a small country like Austria.
Therefore you need to tackle both problems at once. I'm tired of people ignoring the fact. No country wants to become Libanon 2.0.
Yeah no fuck off
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We pay for using that capital. We pay rent, we pay for groceries, we pay for gas. Everytime we pay something, somebody makes money. Tax them.
Why would they invest in your apartment if they have to pay taxes on it? Unless they can charge the tax to you as well.
You're going to need the public to build your apartment. And sadly, in Singapore where this is the case, rent is ridiculously high.
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The thing you should take from this, is that when you keep antagonising people, they will hate you.
I have no problem with people hating me, there's some people I hate. if you expect everyone to love you in live you're kind of naive or have no opinion whatsoever
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There's a lot of people, at least online, that do not want to engage with the other.
For right wingers it's "lazy/snobby".
For left wingers it's "fascist/nazi/supremacist".
Those ad hominems derail the argumentation and worsen communication.
i'm not talking about the politicians, but the voters.
With social media it has been enlarged. Everyone goes to their own bubble and when someone shares a wrong thought, then that person gets removed from the bubble.
Sorry what..? The US is quite literally taken over by fascists and fascist ideas and you claim that the biggest issue is that someone calls that out?
Also, your original claim was this:
Their left wing tries to dehumanise their right wing.
Seems like you moved the goal post. Calling someone fascist is not dehumanizing, especially when they actually support fascist ideas.
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100% unconditional intolerance for fascists. You canât give them a millimeter or theyâll take the entire country.
I suggest watching Thought Slimeâs recent video if you wish to know how to effectively counteract fascists.
The gist is that you shouldnât try to argue with them, they donât care about reality. Donât let them look reasonable by arguing as if they were, insist on pointing out theyâre being assholes (which they are) and that anything they suggest is so obviously wrong it doesnât even need to be explained why itâs wrong (which is true).
This is quite literally the opposite of how you actually get people to support your cause. Ask any psychologist.
Shutting them out completely might work fine when they're a tiny minority, but when in some cases a quarter of the population agrees with them enough to vote for them, doing that is simply impossible. They will have reach.
I also still think we need people throwing their morals about manipulating people to the wind and starting to peddle left wing conspiracy theories just like the right wingers are doing. For example with how perfectly it fits there really should be an actual movement behind the whole trump=the biblical antichrist thing in the US, but I've only seen it as satire in spaces that are already left wing.
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Sorry what..? The US is quite literally taken over by fascists and fascist ideas and you claim that the biggest issue is that someone calls that out?
Also, your original claim was this:
Their left wing tries to dehumanise their right wing.
Seems like you moved the goal post. Calling someone fascist is not dehumanizing, especially when they actually support fascist ideas.
So 50% of USA are fascists/nazi/...
Must be weird walking on the street then
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I have no problem with people hating me, there's some people I hate. if you expect everyone to love you in live you're kind of naive or have no opinion whatsoever
That's polarisation, buddy
The opposite of trying to communicate.
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Facotries, houses and even companies can not be easily moved. Even something like a bank needs employees, with certain skills and those have value. You usually can not just move those to another country, unless something really drastic happens.
The other part is to organize. Something like the minimum company tax is a really good starting point. Most large countries have relativly high taxes anyway. The only reason tax heavens work is, because they have a tiny population and the few hundret jobs created by the paperwork are enough to support them. They could easily be bullied into having normal taxes.
Also keep in mind the EU has 1/5 of the global economy by itself.
USA has 6,5% tax on capital EU 20%.
We attract capital because we offer stability.
Taxing the shit out of their made investments does not offer stability. They'd stop putting in new investments.
We'd have decay.
USA is the capital of the world when it comes to capitalism. A world ETF market weighted gives you 60% USA. That's massive.
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Sorry what..? The US is quite literally taken over by fascists and fascist ideas and you claim that the biggest issue is that someone calls that out?
Also, your original claim was this:
Their left wing tries to dehumanise their right wing.
Seems like you moved the goal post. Calling someone fascist is not dehumanizing, especially when they actually support fascist ideas.
He also blatantly disregarded data I linked that disproves his point.
He is not arguing in good faith, at all.
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100% unconditional intolerance for fascists. You canât give them a millimeter or theyâll take the entire country.
I suggest watching Thought Slimeâs recent video if you wish to know how to effectively counteract fascists.
The gist is that you shouldnât try to argue with them, they donât care about reality. Donât let them look reasonable by arguing as if they were, insist on pointing out theyâre being assholes (which they are) and that anything they suggest is so obviously wrong it doesnât even need to be explained why itâs wrong (which is true).
I have a rule: I don't pronounce the word fascist (in private or in public, I don't care) without prefixing it with "lurid" in English and in Italian appending "di merda" after fascista/i.
As someone who had nightmares at night about them, given the testimony of my grandmother, I feel that not qualifying fascist people is somehow working in their favor.The day I will see a politician using that rule in a TV interview I will know that we have again a chance.
