What are your VPN recommendations for accessing self-hosted applications from the outside?
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Hello,
Some time ago, I started self-hosting applications, but only on my local network. So far, it's working fine, but I can't access them as soon as I go outside (which is completely normal).
For the past few days I've been looking for a relatively secure way of accessing my applications from outside.
I don't need anyone but myself to have access to my applications, so from what I've understood, it's not necessarily useful to set up a reverse-proxy in that case and it would be simpler to set up a VPN.
From what I've seen, Wireguard seems to be a good option. At first glance, I'd have to install it on the machine containing my applications, port-forward the Wireguard listening port and configure my other devices to access this machine through Wireguard
However, I don't have enough hindsight to know whether this is a sufficient layer of security to at least prevent bots from accessing my data or compromising my machine.
I've also seen Wireguard-based solutions like Tailscale or Netbird that seem to make configuration easier, but I have a hard time knowing if it would really be useful in my case (and I don't really get what else they are doing despite simplifying the setup).
Do you have any opinions on this? Are there any obvious security holes in what I've said? Is setting up a VPN really the solution in my case?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
wrote last edited by [email protected]Managing Wireguard is just one of Tailscale's features.
It uses some UDP black magic fuckery to get through NAT and firewalls without having to open ports on the edge. Very useful if you're behind CGNAT and/or your ISP is a dickhead and locks down the firewall on your router (this is why I use it; eat a dick, Vodafone). If the UDP fuckery is not available, it reverts to simple relay servers. The client can also advertise subnets and route to hosts on it. You could install the Tailscale client on OPNSense/pfSense/OpenWRT and access your entire home network through that one device.
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Tailscale is very tempting, on one hand it should provide a pretty good layer of security without too much thinking and it is "free", and on another hand, it's a business solution, so it is probably not really free...
Thanks for the answer anyway confirming that Tailscale is pretty easy to setup !
The tailscale clients are, I believe, open source. It's just the server that's not, and you can run the unofficial but well supported "headscale" as a server if you want. But this requires you to run this somewhere publicly accessible, like a VPS, for coordination and NAT-punching purposes.
But! I'm pretty sure as the business operates right now, that tailscale doesn't have access to the actual data connections or anything, it's all encrypted, they're basically just there for simplicity and coordination. And their business model is to offer simple things for free, like small numbers of devices, with the hope that you like the service and convince your business to pay for the fancy version for money. So I don't think it's quite as bad as the typical "free because I'm harvesting your data" models.
That all having been said, I run headscale
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And why, pray tell, do you need Mullvad to do it? I want to know why you think that.
I didn't say you need it. I strongly recommend the as a provider.
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There is no need to pay for an external service for this and I don't think Mullvad would work for this use case.
It does work for this use case.
You don't need to, you can use wire guard.
Mullvad is the only VPN you can pay for with cash and actually remain untraced.
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Apologies for the dumb noob question, but if your iOS device is VPNed to your home server, how does it access the open internet? Does it do this via the VPN?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Depends on the client configuration. If you route all the traffic through vpn (so, simplified, 0.0.0.0/0) then all their client device network traffic would go through their vpn server at home and is seen as coming from there; otherwise, if you only route specific addressess (like your home network private addressess only) then only those go to their home network and everything else works like it would without a vpn.
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Apologies for the dumb noob question, but if your iOS device is VPNed to your home server, how does it access the open internet? Does it do this via the VPN?
wrote last edited by [email protected]WireGuard routes certain traffic from the client (your iPhone) through the server (the computer at your house). If you route all traffic, then when your iPhone accesses the internet, it's as if you were at home. Since that WireGuard server is sitting on your home LAN, it is able to route your phones traffic to anything else on that LAN, or out to the internet.
Wireguard clients have a setting called AllowedIPs that tells the client what IP subnets to route through the server. By default this is
0.0.0.0/0, ::/0, which means "all ipv4 and all ipv6 traffic". But If all you want to access are services on your home LAN, then you change that to192.168.0.0/24or whatever your home subnet is, and only traffic heading to that network will be routed through the WireGuard server at your house, but all other traffic goes out of your phone's normal network paths to the internet. -
It does work for this use case.
You don't need to, you can use wire guard.
Mullvad is the only VPN you can pay for with cash and actually remain untraced.
Can you explain how to make it work for this use case?
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Okay, so that's pretty much the setup I had in mind. Good to know there is not much need for an extra step for security, thanks for the answer !
Well, I guess that would still be vulnerable to DDOS attacks, but that would just prevent me from accessing my cinnamon apple-pie recipe from my self hosted recipe manager for some time. A bit mean, but not catastrophic.
I wondered if there would be some other attacks that could compromise my machine with only a wireguard setup, but that's a good sign if there is nothing obvious.
You wouldn't be any more vulnerable to ddos attacks than without WG.
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WireGuard routes certain traffic from the client (your iPhone) through the server (the computer at your house). If you route all traffic, then when your iPhone accesses the internet, it's as if you were at home. Since that WireGuard server is sitting on your home LAN, it is able to route your phones traffic to anything else on that LAN, or out to the internet.
Wireguard clients have a setting called AllowedIPs that tells the client what IP subnets to route through the server. By default this is
0.0.0.0/0, ::/0, which means "all ipv4 and all ipv6 traffic". But If all you want to access are services on your home LAN, then you change that to192.168.0.0/24or whatever your home subnet is, and only traffic heading to that network will be routed through the WireGuard server at your house, but all other traffic goes out of your phone's normal network paths to the internet.Ahh. But what if you already used a VPN on the client for normal browsing etc - can you have two VPNs configured?
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The variant version of number 2, which is more work to set up of course, is Pangolin on a VPS. Basically serves the same purpose but skips Cloudflare entirely.
I'm in the process of setting up Pangolin and Headscale on a VPS to expose a small handful of services and to replace my wg-easy setup. Currently chaining wg-easy through a gluetun container, so with a single VPN connection I get LAN access and protect my outbound traffic, but I can't for the life of me get the same setup working on wg-easy v15, so I'm going to give tailscale/headscale a try with a gluetun exit node.
For the vps, will you go with a provider like digital ocean?
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Ahh. But what if you already used a VPN on the client for normal browsing etc - can you have two VPNs configured?
No, think of a VPN as a network cable. You can only send out of one or the other.
Now, if you are connected to a device that has another VPN to somewhere you want to go, then technically yes you would be using 2 VPN connections.
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Hello,
Some time ago, I started self-hosting applications, but only on my local network. So far, it's working fine, but I can't access them as soon as I go outside (which is completely normal).
For the past few days I've been looking for a relatively secure way of accessing my applications from outside.
I don't need anyone but myself to have access to my applications, so from what I've understood, it's not necessarily useful to set up a reverse-proxy in that case and it would be simpler to set up a VPN.
From what I've seen, Wireguard seems to be a good option. At first glance, I'd have to install it on the machine containing my applications, port-forward the Wireguard listening port and configure my other devices to access this machine through Wireguard
However, I don't have enough hindsight to know whether this is a sufficient layer of security to at least prevent bots from accessing my data or compromising my machine.
I've also seen Wireguard-based solutions like Tailscale or Netbird that seem to make configuration easier, but I have a hard time knowing if it would really be useful in my case (and I don't really get what else they are doing despite simplifying the setup).
Do you have any opinions on this? Are there any obvious security holes in what I've said? Is setting up a VPN really the solution in my case?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
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Tailscale is very tempting, on one hand it should provide a pretty good layer of security without too much thinking and it is "free", and on another hand, it's a business solution, so it is probably not really free...
Thanks for the answer anyway confirming that Tailscale is pretty easy to setup !
Headscale is an open source implementation of the Tailscale control server.
https://github.com/juanfont/headscale
Not an endorsement as I haven't used it (I do use Tailscale), but just thought I'd point it out.
-
Hello,
Some time ago, I started self-hosting applications, but only on my local network. So far, it's working fine, but I can't access them as soon as I go outside (which is completely normal).
For the past few days I've been looking for a relatively secure way of accessing my applications from outside.
I don't need anyone but myself to have access to my applications, so from what I've understood, it's not necessarily useful to set up a reverse-proxy in that case and it would be simpler to set up a VPN.
From what I've seen, Wireguard seems to be a good option. At first glance, I'd have to install it on the machine containing my applications, port-forward the Wireguard listening port and configure my other devices to access this machine through Wireguard
However, I don't have enough hindsight to know whether this is a sufficient layer of security to at least prevent bots from accessing my data or compromising my machine.
I've also seen Wireguard-based solutions like Tailscale or Netbird that seem to make configuration easier, but I have a hard time knowing if it would really be useful in my case (and I don't really get what else they are doing despite simplifying the setup).
Do you have any opinions on this? Are there any obvious security holes in what I've said? Is setting up a VPN really the solution in my case?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
Tailscale is easier than Wireguard but if you're running OPNsense or OpenWRT it's not hard to do a wireguard infra of your own and avoid having to use an outside service. I ended up having to revert to wireguard anyway because Tailscale's android app wasn't reliable on my new phone, it would drop out every few hours which messed up my monitor/alert system.
But Tailscale is still the easier of the two solutions.
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Ahh. But what if you already used a VPN on the client for normal browsing etc - can you have two VPNs configured?
I don't think iOS allows multiple VPNs to be enabled simultaneously. There appears to be only one VPN on/off toggle switch. From what I've seen you can have different vpn profiles but only enable one at a time. I could be wrong though.
Desktop operating systems like macOS, Linux (did I mention yet that I use arch Linux?), BSD, and um.. that other one... oh yeah, Windows do allow this. I'm sure there are a variety of compatibility problems, but in general, multiple VPNs with the same or even different technologies can work together.
-
Hello,
Some time ago, I started self-hosting applications, but only on my local network. So far, it's working fine, but I can't access them as soon as I go outside (which is completely normal).
For the past few days I've been looking for a relatively secure way of accessing my applications from outside.
I don't need anyone but myself to have access to my applications, so from what I've understood, it's not necessarily useful to set up a reverse-proxy in that case and it would be simpler to set up a VPN.
From what I've seen, Wireguard seems to be a good option. At first glance, I'd have to install it on the machine containing my applications, port-forward the Wireguard listening port and configure my other devices to access this machine through Wireguard
However, I don't have enough hindsight to know whether this is a sufficient layer of security to at least prevent bots from accessing my data or compromising my machine.
I've also seen Wireguard-based solutions like Tailscale or Netbird that seem to make configuration easier, but I have a hard time knowing if it would really be useful in my case (and I don't really get what else they are doing despite simplifying the setup).
Do you have any opinions on this? Are there any obvious security holes in what I've said? Is setting up a VPN really the solution in my case?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
Zero tier. I went tailscale originally, and they're good, but their mdns support doesn't exist and several services rely on it. (For me, the showstopper was time machine backups)
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Wireguard is the way to go. I like using wg-easy to use wireguard because its easy to set up in a docker container.
Agree, highly recommend this and/or Tailscale.
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Hello,
Some time ago, I started self-hosting applications, but only on my local network. So far, it's working fine, but I can't access them as soon as I go outside (which is completely normal).
For the past few days I've been looking for a relatively secure way of accessing my applications from outside.
I don't need anyone but myself to have access to my applications, so from what I've understood, it's not necessarily useful to set up a reverse-proxy in that case and it would be simpler to set up a VPN.
From what I've seen, Wireguard seems to be a good option. At first glance, I'd have to install it on the machine containing my applications, port-forward the Wireguard listening port and configure my other devices to access this machine through Wireguard
However, I don't have enough hindsight to know whether this is a sufficient layer of security to at least prevent bots from accessing my data or compromising my machine.
I've also seen Wireguard-based solutions like Tailscale or Netbird that seem to make configuration easier, but I have a hard time knowing if it would really be useful in my case (and I don't really get what else they are doing despite simplifying the setup).
Do you have any opinions on this? Are there any obvious security holes in what I've said? Is setting up a VPN really the solution in my case?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
wrote last edited by [email protected]I rarely if ever see ZeroTier mentioned as a solution, but it's a self-hostable encrypted virtual mesh network (with a small free tier for corp-hosted), super secure, and really easy to setup. I use ZTnet instead of the free-tier corp-hosted controller
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I didn't say you need it. I strongly recommend the as a provider.
Please do enlighten me how you use Mullvad to access you self-hosted services in your home? Like OP asked for.
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Hello,
Some time ago, I started self-hosting applications, but only on my local network. So far, it's working fine, but I can't access them as soon as I go outside (which is completely normal).
For the past few days I've been looking for a relatively secure way of accessing my applications from outside.
I don't need anyone but myself to have access to my applications, so from what I've understood, it's not necessarily useful to set up a reverse-proxy in that case and it would be simpler to set up a VPN.
From what I've seen, Wireguard seems to be a good option. At first glance, I'd have to install it on the machine containing my applications, port-forward the Wireguard listening port and configure my other devices to access this machine through Wireguard
However, I don't have enough hindsight to know whether this is a sufficient layer of security to at least prevent bots from accessing my data or compromising my machine.
I've also seen Wireguard-based solutions like Tailscale or Netbird that seem to make configuration easier, but I have a hard time knowing if it would really be useful in my case (and I don't really get what else they are doing despite simplifying the setup).
Do you have any opinions on this? Are there any obvious security holes in what I've said? Is setting up a VPN really the solution in my case?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
My Asus router has a a few nice ones
