Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia

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Hey now! Australia is probably sick of everyone just sending criminals there!

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I don’t see how mandatory jail time helps with “They need to reeducate the people”

Jail doesn't work for Nazis. The world learned only one things solves the "fascism problem".

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The answer to the German question is that they spend a great deal of money on having an excellent education system,

I think it was more that they had their country completely flattened due to them being fascists, and didn't want it to happen again.

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In WW2, the concentration camps and the Holocaust didn't break any German or international laws. This is the first case where the charge of crimes against humanity was used.

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Back to the Nazi, separate them from the rest of society.

Permanently. Like how we permanently separated Nazis from the rest of the world in the 1940s.

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They can still easily identify each other online, social groups, clubs, etc. I would think that's how most of these people get together anyway, and not from some rando on the street throwing up a nazi salute. Making the gesture illegal also doesn't solve why people are this way. It doesn't solve the problem. It just covers it up (imo).

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Wow I never thought about this but would not be surprised at the development. If you vertically integrate the company that controls the satellites, the company that launches them into orbit, the govt that oversees it all, etc, you could just send whatever up there, especially with hundreds of launches and satellites.

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I have no idea why you are so convinced that people are just as likely to join hate groups when they don't know that they exist, but okay...

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Surely kidnapping and murder were illegal.

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Just how bad they were at science

Operation Paperclip.

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I didn't really answer because I'm not quite sure. I suppose i have a hard time imagining what category of actions or words should be punishable with jail time. Maybe hate speech? But then how do you define hate speech? And how do you limit the growing list of things defined as hate speech? Seems too easily politicized, like they could be repurposed as blasphemy laws or something. I guess i tend toward those not being punishable offenses because of their subjective nature. A nazi salute might cause me to roll my eyes, but cause you a ton of distress, regardless of the actual intent of the person doing it. Maybe they did it without knowing what it meant to you, or maybe they thought it was funny, or maybe they were trying to normalize and legitimize hatred of Jews. It could be any of those or something altogether different. There is far too much subjectivity or room for error.

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Please quote what you think I said that suggests I am showing any rage.

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But then how do you define hate speech?

The world may never know.

Also, this:

Maybe they did it without knowing what it meant to you, or maybe they thought it was funny, or maybe they were trying to normalize and legitimize hatred of Jews.

None of those things make a Nazi salute acceptable. Literally nothing makes it acceptable. You're now on the level of people who have been defending Elon Musk for it, I hope you realize that.

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Those were the exceptions. When it came to things like medical science with experiments on POWs and concentration camp prisoners they were so abysmal it wasn't funny.

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Yeah nah. Any law is ripe for abuse by fascists.

To me the law is less about punishing Nazis and more of a clear statement that as a society we find this ideology unacceptable.

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Because, as I said, they find each other online, in social settings, etc. Shit, the Aryan Brotherhood started as a prison gang. Banning the salute isn't going to keep people from knowing about hate groups because that's not how they find out about them to begin with.

I'm not arguing against banning hate speech, I'm just saying that that alone isn't going to fix the problem. We also need to figure out why people are drawn to this stuff. Is it poverty? Lack of education? Lead in the drinking water?

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Dude, if a 15 year old kid is messing around with his buddies and throws up a salute, it should not be punishable. If a 30 year old autistic guy throws up a salute because he never understood the context or meaning behind it, he shouldn't be punished. I can theorize a hundred examples that wouldn't be deserving of punishment, but are actually simple misunderstanding or ignorance. And that's the problem. I don't think it's acceptable, but I also don't think it's punishable through government actions. Social pressure should be sufficient to correct ignorant behavior in cases like this. Do you think it's more just to punish an innocent man wrongly, or to let a guilty person go free? Do you feel confident in the justice system ability to determine guilt accurately?

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I used to be a person that believed very strongly in freedom of speech and that anything which was categorized as a philosophy or belief shouldn't be censored.

However, after seeing how hard fascism has taken hold in America, I'm beginning to change my mind.

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If a 30 year old autistic guy throws up a salute because he never understood the context or meaning behind it, he shouldn’t be punished. I

You're now using the exact excuse people made for Elon Musk.

Can you tell me about all these autistic people who go around giving Nazi salutes inadvertently? Because there are a lot of autistic people in my family and that doesn't seem to be amongst their symptoms.

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Yes, no one is denying there are other ways to do it.

What you seem to be suggesting is that if you eliminate literally the most easy way to find who to sign up with when it comes to joining a hate group, it won't make a difference.

What exactly do you think the point of public advertising is? Aesthetics?

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Mandatory jail term for Nazi salute under new hate crime rules in Australia