Arguments for Signal over Whatsapp, Messenger, and SnapChat
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Hey Folks!
Someone in my family (Person A), has talked to a guy, who is working in the tech world, about if it make sense to use Signal, over Messenger, Snap, WhatsApp, with privacy in mind. The tech guy said, there is no difference, and that its not making sense to use it and that its almost the same.
I know Signal is discussed alot here, but im now looking for some arguments, and facts to tell the one from my family, that the tech guy is wrong. What arguments can i use, why is Signal better in privacy, then the other alternatives?
Person A, has always been sceptical about me beeing so privacy minded, and A thinks that there is nothing to do to protect, and is one of thoese saying : I have nothing to hide. -
P [email protected] shared this topic
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I don't think there's much of a point unless person A actually wants to make a change in their habits. It's like trying to convince someone to switch to Linux.
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Signal is the only app on that list whose app is open source. That means it can be audited to see if they are telling the truth.
You cannot say the same for the others and you just have to take them at their word. Should we take Facebook at their word?
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Whats' app, while E2EE can still pull lots of information from who you message, how often, the size of the messages, and contact's phone number. Messenger has the content of your messages and with whom you converse according to Facebook account info stored on Facebook servers. Snapchat has a record of all activity, contacts, and message content. The messages only disappear from app but not from SnapChat servers. All 3 of those record of how you live your life, except Whatsapp can't see content of messages but still has your activities and contact phone numbers.
Signal was ordered to turn over user content to court and Signal only had when the user last connected to the service and date of account creation. Signal had zero information about messages, when messages were sent, or to whom.
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It's also the only app on the list managed by a 501(c)3 non-profit, so you can additionally check where their money goes.
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For me it is not so much about personal privacy, as against concentration of power.
Insane money combined with capacity of invisible, precise manipulation of mass information is really hurting democracies. Big tech is already richer than most countries, and their negative influence is more visible than ever. So now we, who believe in democratic principles, have to vote not only with ballots, but also with our choices and our conscious attention. The least we can do is resist this concentration of power on personal level. Ideally - do it together.
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Snapchat does not use end-to-end encryption for messages, so it doesn't even belong in the conversation.
WhatsApp and FB Messenger are somewhat defensible choices since they at least use E2EE by default (Messenger did not until recently). However, there are a few good reasons to favor Signal:
- It is open source. Interested parties can actually verify that Signal's encryption claims are true. Interested parties can also audit new versions as they released.
- Facebook/Meta, as a company, has a long history of tracking users, leaking user data, and even conducting psychological experiments on users without consent and in secret.
- WhatsApp and Messenger only allow 6-digit PINs to secure your messages. With that PIN, you can decrypt those messages. Signal allows for longer alphanumeric passcodes.
- Facebook makes no promises not to track your usage of Messenger or WhatsApp, only that the messages themselves are encrypted.
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Just because the tech guy is a tech guy doesn't mean they have a sense of privacy, or even know what tech can do, harm wise.. maybe for them it's just hardware specs and Windows installations everyday
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First of all, Signals code is open. Many people arround the world can check (and they already did) if the messenger lives up to its promises, is secure, private and so on. The others are not. Whatever you think they do, you have to trust a company like Meta. You wanna be that naive?
All those apps collect data: when you are online, where you are online, who is talking to who. Maybe also what you are talking about... we can't know. For example: Some psychatrists do not use WhatsApp because using such an app in the waiting room would provide Meta with information like 'you have mental health issues'.
Signal on the other hand does verifiable not collect such data.We also can see bahaviours coming from big companies to direct societies into a direction of their favor. They act like this, because maximum profit and power is what they are working for - they are simply companies. Signal on the other hand is a foundation which aims to provide security, encryption, privacy and fight against censorship (not in terms of content but in terms of countries blocking messenger services). What could be the more trustworthy base?
Btw Signal uses donations to pay their development and Servers so you can use the app for free. What does Meta use to handle costs for WhatsApp, Facebook and so on... Maybe they are charitable
To name differences:
- No adds
- No tracking
- Local backup (not on Google services or something like that)
- No exchange of personal data like phone number (they use a hash instead)
- You can use a pseudonym in form of a user name to get in contact with others (without telling them your phone number) and you can easily delete it and use a new one
- Signal created the Signal protocol which is called the gold standard, as it is the most secure and to encryption mechanism. They were the first so add resistance against quantum computers
And finally the better question is:
Why should the world use WhatsApp and co and not Signal? They do not have one advantage. If the whole world would use Signal, Threema or similar apps, it wouldn't lose anything but would win so much. Think about that -
I managed to convince my family to switch by pointing out that the FBI and CISA both recommended switching to E2EE apps due to ongoing telecom hacks.
Sometimes, reality is enough to scare people into change.
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Variants of this exact question seem to be asked at the rate of about 3 per week.
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This is how I see it too. It's why I use Telegram (which I know is dodgy) but not Whatsapp.
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I tried arguing along similar lines. Failed and fell flat on my face when it came to history. There's so much chat history on WhatsApp for instance that without a way to port it all over to Signal, near impossible if that to bring people over.
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A don't wanna change mind, A always wanna be right, so I have to have the best arguments, not to make person a to switch, but to "win" the discussion
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That's true! I can't wait to "shoot" back with arguments
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And here I am waiting for Sup to be released by an adrenaline-filled code-junkie from Grand Prairie, Alberta...
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Thank you for the list of arguments
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That's so true. I thought so too, but Person A I a hard but to crack
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So good written, and understandable. Thank yiu
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Also the FBI took signal to court and the only data they could provide was the date of signup and last login timestamp
