Teddybears - Punkrocker
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If i am able to switch one word in a 3 sentence comment in order make it exactly sound like what a Fascist would say, it is probably not a very anti fascist thing.
Dehumanizing the outgroup is very fascist.wrote last edited by [email protected]Everything accusation is a confession. Why would this one be any different?
If you have meaningful criteria for what personhood is and why it matters-criteria constructed with intellectual honestly to have some actual utility and not just a desire to avoid awkward questions-it's very likely a fascist does not meet them.
Is chat gpt a person? Why or why not? If yes, what's the earliest model that counted, why did previous models not?
Odds are most of your answers for not are either silly 'its not even made of meat' and kind of offensive (you only think i have value because im meaty and delicious? Wtf? Is steak a person? Tofu?) or apply at least somewhat to fascists, or at least to every fascist's aspiration.
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Everything accusation is a confession. Why would this one be any different?
If you have meaningful criteria for what personhood is and why it matters-criteria constructed with intellectual honestly to have some actual utility and not just a desire to avoid awkward questions-it's very likely a fascist does not meet them.
Is chat gpt a person? Why or why not? If yes, what's the earliest model that counted, why did previous models not?
Odds are most of your answers for not are either silly 'its not even made of meat' and kind of offensive (you only think i have value because im meaty and delicious? Wtf? Is steak a person? Tofu?) or apply at least somewhat to fascists, or at least to every fascist's aspiration.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Is chatgpt a person? Maybe, if you find the right definition.
Is chatgpt a human? No.Is a Fascist a person? Maybe not if you find the right definition.
Is a Fascist a human? For sure.I have no problems fighting fascists, if needed with strong violence.
The moment we throw then into a camp for extermination is the point i am going to fight the new fascists.You can sate your sadism on fantasy, no need to become the monster yourself.
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The funniest thing is that the superhero they have a problem with is Superman.
If it were Batman, that would be different. Batman isn't a pure-hearted hero, he's a more complex character. If it had been someone in the X-Men, or pretty much any Avenger other than Captain America, there would be room for a discussion.
But, Superman is such a good, kind-hearted hero that it's basically impossible to be a good person and be anti-Superman.
Even in-universe they call him boy scout lol
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Fascists aren't people in most of the ways that matter.
They do have viable organs tho, if we wanted to address the shortage in an easy and ethical way.
By dehumanizing them you're no different. Treat your enemies with respect, they are human too, just dumb pieces of shit. Don't lower yourself to their level. Be better than them.
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Is chatgpt a person? Maybe, if you find the right definition.
Is chatgpt a human? No.Is a Fascist a person? Maybe not if you find the right definition.
Is a Fascist a human? For sure.I have no problems fighting fascists, if needed with strong violence.
The moment we throw then into a camp for extermination is the point i am going to fight the new fascists.You can sate your sadism on fantasy, no need to become the monster yourself.
wrote last edited by [email protected]the right definition
Cool, which one(s) do you use? You're avoiding the question. Which is silly. The point was to highlight the space. Why does this make you so uncomfortable?
person? Skipping that. Human? Of course!
Cool so say hi to henrietta for me. I don't see why thats a philosophically important thing; being a particular species of ape. Privileging it when there are obviously other intelligent species in the world, other people, seems incredibly bigoted and shitty.
that would make me a fascist!
Industrialized violence is not what makes a fascist a fascist. It is a philosophy. A very stupid one, but a philosophy. Plenty of people before and after gabriel d’anunzio have done plenty of horrible things without being fascists. Fascism is not a synonym for 'thing i don't like', for fuck's sake. And that sentence is one I've heard a fascist say, but apparently you need fucking reminding.
save the nazis!
So i am actually down to have this discussion, albeit from pretty close to team 'and their families: if it's old enough to talk it's old enough to hang' but you're avoiding potentially uncomfortable questions because they make you uncomfortable, and i would ask more intellectual honesty from you than you're willing to give yourself. Which seems rude, so lets not.
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the right definition
Cool, which one(s) do you use? You're avoiding the question. Which is silly. The point was to highlight the space. Why does this make you so uncomfortable?
person? Skipping that. Human? Of course!
Cool so say hi to henrietta for me. I don't see why thats a philosophically important thing; being a particular species of ape. Privileging it when there are obviously other intelligent species in the world, other people, seems incredibly bigoted and shitty.
that would make me a fascist!
Industrialized violence is not what makes a fascist a fascist. It is a philosophy. A very stupid one, but a philosophy. Plenty of people before and after gabriel d’anunzio have done plenty of horrible things without being fascists. Fascism is not a synonym for 'thing i don't like', for fuck's sake. And that sentence is one I've heard a fascist say, but apparently you need fucking reminding.
save the nazis!
So i am actually down to have this discussion, albeit from pretty close to team 'and their families: if it's old enough to talk it's old enough to hang' but you're avoiding potentially uncomfortable questions because they make you uncomfortable, and i would ask more intellectual honesty from you than you're willing to give yourself. Which seems rude, so lets not.
It is ok, you win the contest. If you win back your country have fun doing alle the horrible shit to "things" that are not quite human. You have no problem with industrialized violence because thats what america is.
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By dehumanizing them you're no different. Treat your enemies with respect, they are human too, just dumb pieces of shit. Don't lower yourself to their level. Be better than them.
wrote last edited by [email protected]no different
Addressed elsewhere downthread.
treat your enemies with respect
And if they dont want to be people in any of the ways that matter to me, calling them people eould be profoundly disrespectful. They aren't me abd dont have my values and treating them like they are/do would be disrespectful.
human
Nobodys arguing that. I just don't see why it gets brought up. Plenty of people arent human-dogs cats elephants octopi corvids cetaceans. If they're not lesser for not being human, i dont see why it's something i should be eating myself out about.
dumb pieces of shit
There's actually more to it than that. Plenty if dumb pieces of shit aren't fascists. In some older forms, that imo inevitably went extinct because of the nature of what it is, they didnt even need to be stupid.
don't lower yourself. Be better
Thanks, got it handled. Take your own advice and don't be super reactionary and tribalistic while reducing everything to shallow aesthetics. Try rigorous examination if the things you believe and elaboration, rather than reflexive gut reaction, or you really are not so different from them.
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It is ok, you win the contest. If you win back your country have fun doing alle the horrible shit to "things" that are not quite human. You have no problem with industrialized violence because thats what america is.
wrote last edited by [email protected]win the contest
You're thay afraid to engage, but still want to have a say about some shit you're not even willing to think about? What the fuck? Like seriously, you're literally not willing to think about it, to engage with the idea, and youre telling me what to think feel and do on the topic. That is some profound fucking arrogance.
And kind of fascist, reactionary at minimum.
have fun doing all the horrible things
Fingers crossed i can, and am still around. That would be so lucky. Or, you know; the living will envy the dead by that point. Whichever.
your country
Never felt welcome or at home here, despite being born here. States not my preferred end point.
thats what america is
Okay, um, kinda, yes. In large part.
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The biggest super hero fan I know said that he doesn't like Superman. Confused by this I asked him why, and he had a pretty good point.
His reason was that, Superman generally isn't physically challenged. In most cases the only issue he faces is trying to figure out what is going on. After that, Superman wins every time. The only exception is with kryptonite. His literal only weakness.
So all plot lines boil down to a mystery, followed by some flashy scenes of Superman going Superman stuff, the end; with the only real exception being "bad guys have kryptonite".
It's boring.And you know what? He makes a good point.
None of this goes against anything you say, it's just one person's opinion (not even mine). The only reason I'm posting this is to say, it's possible to dislike Superman content, but that doesn't and shouldn't imply someone is anti-Superman.
Food for thought.
Death of Superman, Reign of Supermen, Superman Allstar. There are many film/scenarios, where superman has to fight someone actually stronger than he is. Even in Justice League Dark Apokolips, he is captured first, and then injected with Kryptonite.
Your friend needs to watch/read more DC content.
Some more examples with spoilers below.
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler
He even got mind controlled by Poison Ivy once. Hell, in the new game, Suicide Squad Kill The Justice League, he is mind controlled by Brainiac, and Wonder Woman having Kryptonite didn't protect her from Superman.Superman has also done questionable things, even without being mind controlled, like in Batman The Dark Knight Returns Part 2, it is implied that he ripped out one arm of Oliver Queen, aka, Green Arrow, who was also member of Justice League, because the government of USA wanted to stop vigilantes. Then he also almost killed Batman, after being almost killed by Batman.
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win the contest
You're thay afraid to engage, but still want to have a say about some shit you're not even willing to think about? What the fuck? Like seriously, you're literally not willing to think about it, to engage with the idea, and youre telling me what to think feel and do on the topic. That is some profound fucking arrogance.
And kind of fascist, reactionary at minimum.
have fun doing all the horrible things
Fingers crossed i can, and am still around. That would be so lucky. Or, you know; the living will envy the dead by that point. Whichever.
your country
Never felt welcome or at home here, despite being born here. States not my preferred end point.
thats what america is
Okay, um, kinda, yes. In large part.
You are outraged, strawmanning and have already made me out te be your political enemy so why would i? Am i somehow responsible to answer your questions?
I am simply disgusted by dehumanisation of any kind because god knows we have more than enough of that. Maybe it is not even inherently fascist but i do know that it is inherently wrong. -
You are outraged, strawmanning and have already made me out te be your political enemy so why would i? Am i somehow responsible to answer your questions?
I am simply disgusted by dehumanisation of any kind because god knows we have more than enough of that. Maybe it is not even inherently fascist but i do know that it is inherently wrong.you are outraged
Shit. Okay. Yeah, i guess. That's devastating. I'm devastated.
made me out to be your enemy
Where?
strawmanning
Not what that means.
disgusted by dehumanization
Okay. Valid. But you don't actually want to talk about this so why are you telling me?
maybe not fascist! Still bad!
Okay. Different conversation and i still don't think one you want to or can have in good faith.
i smell gas
Oh shit. Oh shit i do too. Lets continue this outside? Do you think that's far enough?
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The biggest super hero fan I know said that he doesn't like Superman. Confused by this I asked him why, and he had a pretty good point.
His reason was that, Superman generally isn't physically challenged. In most cases the only issue he faces is trying to figure out what is going on. After that, Superman wins every time. The only exception is with kryptonite. His literal only weakness.
So all plot lines boil down to a mystery, followed by some flashy scenes of Superman going Superman stuff, the end; with the only real exception being "bad guys have kryptonite".
It's boring.And you know what? He makes a good point.
None of this goes against anything you say, it's just one person's opinion (not even mine). The only reason I'm posting this is to say, it's possible to dislike Superman content, but that doesn't and shouldn't imply someone is anti-Superman.
Food for thought.
It's probably the main reason that there are games about pretty much every superhero going, but Superman always gets skipped. Superman 64 is the classic example, due to how dire it was. There's been a few attempts since then, but nothing popular and the last was about 20 years ago.
The only real threat to Superman is to attack the things he cares about.
I kind of like the subversion of Superman type characters, like Dr Manhattan (what if Superman was indifferent?) or Homelander (what if Superman was a cunt?)
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you are outraged
Shit. Okay. Yeah, i guess. That's devastating. I'm devastated.
made me out to be your enemy
Where?
strawmanning
Not what that means.
disgusted by dehumanization
Okay. Valid. But you don't actually want to talk about this so why are you telling me?
maybe not fascist! Still bad!
Okay. Different conversation and i still don't think one you want to or can have in good faith.
i smell gas
Oh shit. Oh shit i do too. Lets continue this outside? Do you think that's far enough?
Your edited quotes are really stupid. How do you have any conversations in good faith?
Its rage-baiting and i would rather not have conversations with pretentious and obnoxious people like you.
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The funniest thing is that the superhero they have a problem with is Superman.
If it were Batman, that would be different. Batman isn't a pure-hearted hero, he's a more complex character. If it had been someone in the X-Men, or pretty much any Avenger other than Captain America, there would be room for a discussion.
But, Superman is such a good, kind-hearted hero that it's basically impossible to be a good person and be anti-Superman.
Absolutely.
I know people can call superman boring, but to me what makes him even more amazing is that he has enough power to basically dominate everyone... But he doesn't, he always chooses to do the right thing and tries to give people a second chance.
It's part of the reason Zach Schneider's Superman sucked balls, because they tried to make him some dark edge lord that literally kills in the first fucking movie.
Supes is the last hero that remains as some sort of beacon of hope and fairness, which naturally goes against the fascist mindset.
A red hatter cannot comprehend having power and not using it to subjugate or enforce your will. It simply does not compute in their lead infested brains.
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Have you seen The Boys? There's an actual fan club of Homelander. The series creators are trying to cut it down because it's the exact opposite of the message they try to bring. Vilans are people's new heroes now. Like Trump and Musk for example.
The Boys is great because it explores how horrific a world like that would be, and how close that world is to ours.
Thankfully I've not seen people fawning over Home Lander. I see people say they exist, but I do wonder if that's drive-by people mistaking fandom of the show for fandom of Homelander.
The guy is a forever child whose insecurity makes him a monster. You're shown how all his
"romantic" relationships are about him being mothered. He literally keeps breast milk in his fridge. He's an infant given god like powers. There is nothing inspirational about him.He's a great villain though.
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homelander was based on trump,, and they were obviously parodying Conservatives in the show.
The comics are from long before Trump. (2006-2012) Homelander is just what happens when you give a flawed person Superman powers. That's the whole premise of the Boys. "What-if superhumans were real people with real flaws?".
He's the manifestation of "absolute power corrupts absolutely".
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The Boys is great because it explores how horrific a world like that would be, and how close that world is to ours.
Thankfully I've not seen people fawning over Home Lander. I see people say they exist, but I do wonder if that's drive-by people mistaking fandom of the show for fandom of Homelander.
The guy is a forever child whose insecurity makes him a monster. You're shown how all his
"romantic" relationships are about him being mothered. He literally keeps breast milk in his fridge. He's an infant given god like powers. There is nothing inspirational about him.He's a great villain though.
I love his character, the actor really does a great job. But he's super evil. He's a great representation to the real world, as many people think there's no collateral damage too great to justify reaching their goal. Dehumanizing others, committing war crimes, hunger for power, forcing their beliefs onto others. I despise people like that.
But there are people who think otherwise: See this
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what Captain America is up to these days. Is he already the poster boy for ICE?
Well, yeah, he basically was, for a while.
(These fascist types tend to identify more with the Punisher, though, despite the fact that he'd be the first to shoot them full of bullets.)
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The funniest thing is that the superhero they have a problem with is Superman.
If it were Batman, that would be different. Batman isn't a pure-hearted hero, he's a more complex character. If it had been someone in the X-Men, or pretty much any Avenger other than Captain America, there would be room for a discussion.
But, Superman is such a good, kind-hearted hero that it's basically impossible to be a good person and be anti-Superman.
Superman is such a good, kind-hearted hero
Oh yeah, no flaws, no notes
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No, it wasn’t the whole point of the movie, it was a thinly veneered plot that mimicked and commented upon real-world events. The central themes of the film were about identity being defined by one’s choices and actions, rather than one’s genetics or parents’ wishes. Films that explicitly critique society are films like Brazil or The Manchurian Candidate, and I have no problem with them because they’re explicit in their purpose at being political commentary. Making a superhero movie that’s purpose is rebooting the DCEU and inserting a political message into it is not explicit at all.
God forbid Superman ever get involved in politics, like Smashing the KKK or warning kids about landmines.
And you can have more then one plot device in a movie. I'm actually tankful that the whole "defined by choices, not by birth" wasn't the only plot line because I've seen that one countless times by now. "Kindness is punk" is a counter cultural idea by now and was refreshing to see.
