[No PHPun Intended] A Brief History of Web Development
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Tell me you haven't looked at php in 15 years without telling me you haven't looked at php in 15 years
I just looked, that was the basis of my comment. It's bad, in particular that "Laravel" thing was awful.
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Everyone in this thread: PHP sucks because it was bad when I last used it 20 years ago.
Dangit. That's me too, I just saw your comment before posting one myself
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IDK, I like Django/DRF
FastAPI ftw, fight me! Lol jk Django is cool and useful and serves a different need, quite well from what I understand.
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Yep, PHP is turning 30 this year! Wondering if "PHP is still relevant?" Ever since we have been hearing that PHP is dead. It was ādeadā 10 years ago, 5 years ago, and āis deadā today. But somehow - it isnāt. Anyway... happy birthday!
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Ah yes, the language that picked strlen as the hash function for its hashtables.
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I'm complete opposite. I feel ruby is a far more mature solution compared to what enterprises are using; node, python, (new hot language here).
Most enterprises use Java. Having built many large apps with Ruby and the JVM ecosystem, thereās a reason the JVM is chosen. Same for C#.
Yes, Ruby is way way more mature than node and Python, but most orgs arenāt building backends with those, or if they do they pretty quickly learn why they shouldnāt (been at two orgs that were moving off of node and python).
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Webassembly frameworks.
Blazor! But only because I'm a dotnet guy professionally.
Yew? I'm not good enough with Rust to have tried it.
Wasm cannot modify the DOM iirc
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W-what? Did you used js as backend? How was performance?
Happens a lot - my (quite small) shop was using NestJS for backends and my boss is way more experienced and wise than me. I unintentionally caused us to switch over to Python, which probably sounds as silly as JS to many, but - we deliver dope shit, on time and on budget
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ļø -
Ah yes, the language that picked strlen as the hash function for its hashtables.
Can you elaborate on this?
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Or TSP (trisodium phosphate) - which you can't even make websites with, but it's great for cleaning oil spots off the driveway.
Well, now, that's useful, but we shouldn't fail to mention good ol HCl, muriatic acid colloquially for this purpose, also great for cleaning oil stains from a driveway!
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Can you elaborate on this?
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Webassembly frameworks.
Blazor! But only because I'm a dotnet guy professionally.
Yew? I'm not good enough with Rust to have tried it.
Dotnet professionally and using lemmy.ml socially is hilarious to me and (sincerely) entirely consistent. Makes perfect sense, I just find it funny. (I'm not being sarcastic or attacking you, might not be clear lol)
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Let's be honest though. The early PHP versions were absolute dog shit. And the definition of how not to design a programming language. That said, that never stopped anyone in web development from using it apparently. No clue what modern PHP looks like, apparently it's better now.
I've never heard of a programming language that people don't consider shit
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There really isnāt a language that has completely disappeared.
How about that shit where a "program" was a bunch of patch cables plugged into various sockets? That shit is gone, man.
Just for the sake of being contrary, I know that there are still machines running on punch cards in some army-related places, where not changing anything is mandatory. I wouldn't be surprised if hot-wiring is also still there somewhere, it's just mostly running without changes.
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That's also 30 years old, old man!
A language usually doesn't become worse with time, at least if the devs do a good job at improving it.
There are cases of new languages that looked better but didn't become mainstream because the ecosystem requires time to grow (and adoption, which creates a vicious cycle because adoption requires ecosystem to already be there)
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W-what? Did you used js as backend? How was performance?
It's very rare that the backend language significantly affects performance. In 99% of apps you could have the most optimized backend written directly in machine language, and you'd just shave off milliseconds.
That's because in web development most of the latency comes from i/o (network requests, database access, file access), not from computation being slow.
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Wasm cannot modify the DOM iirc
I've toyed with WASM, creating a simple sudoku page, and it did take an empty page, added all the buttons, and then changed them upon user interaction.
I think, I also heard of the DOM modification limitations, but it's not a hard barrier afaik, there are just some cases where it can't
But still, doing something in (pure) WASM looks way harder than needed to me
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It should be rewritten in rust, any way.
::: spoiler Spoiler
/s
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ļø we need PHP interpreter written in Rust, noted -
Ah yes, the language that picked strlen as the hash function for its hashtables.
Waaaaaaat
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I personally feel that giving the growing user base things they want is probably the most prudent reason. Constantly refusing to provide simple constructs that are available everywhere else It's not a good look. In the open source world if you do that shit enough you end up getting forked.
The context and ease of switch in a functional programming layout is a rather clean implementation.
Otherwise you end up with the crap like they're pulling with flask were you just make an unnamed, unindexed number of functions. Can you sort and organize your functions and make everything clean? Sure you can. Does it happen by default? Almost never.
You can walk up to someone else's switch and see what the options are. The code flows through that simple construct and it's very easy to understand someone else's work.
I load up someone else's flask endpoint, It's just this multi-page stream of consciousness.
You don't need switch, But there's a reason why so damn many people ask for it. Before they agreed to include "match", They said just to use getattr and write your own switch.
I think I agree with you, and I also think you probably know better than me, but - Python couldn't become what Python became without doing this exact thing very deliberately, bordering on obnoxious at times. Fundamentals or "initial state" define the characteristic strengths and weaknesses for a language, but what to add and what not to, as well as "why" and "how", over time determine the true shape and user experience (lacking a better word there) of a language.
Despite its reputation, in my view Python has always been far more opinionated about how to do things than most give it credit for.
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It's very rare that the backend language significantly affects performance. In 99% of apps you could have the most optimized backend written directly in machine language, and you'd just shave off milliseconds.
That's because in web development most of the latency comes from i/o (network requests, database access, file access), not from computation being slow.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]So why did Facebook build that whole system of converting C++ to PHP or whatever they did? Was it because they didnāt understand the savings? Or when you scale that high, the savings really are significant? Were there savings?
Edit to subtract: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HHVM is what it eventually turned into, and apparently it showed significant improvements even above the previous system.
