And nothing of value was lost
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You sound an awful lot like a Nazi right now.
You sound like an idiot
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What? .42% BAC = 4.2% promille, over five times the legal limit and potentially fatal.
100% if you're a nazi apparently.
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The problem is that fascists know that normal people are empathetic in this way, and they use it against us. It makes it nearly impossible to stop them (without violence).
At some point you're just bowing down to murderous psychopaths who literally want you dead.
Acknowledging and understanding they are human DOES NOT mean cowing down or bowing down to them. It means understanding that they're human.
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I would ask you, is it OK to fight Nazis in a war? If you say yes, then what's the difference?
Are you incapable of fighting someone you consider human?
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It doesn't really matter if we think they're people. It doesn't really matter if they are. We (all the worthy humans) should treat them as non people.
I can't see a negative here beyond false identification. If there was an objective, without a doubt way to measure if someone was a Nazi, I would support genociding them (and only them). Proactively. It should simply be as illegal to just be a Nazi on the same level as it would be to murder an entire country's population.
Turns out that is either impossible or we're millions of years from figuring out how to do that safely (safe in terms of not harming non Nazis). But the minute we do I'd be on board with punishing them for daring to be born. There is no world of timeline in which being Nazi isn't worthy of immediate execution.
But since all of that is a pipe dream, in the mean time we can at least celebrate when they get taken out naturally. I wouldn't like rub it in the family's face (unless they were Nazis as well) or anything, but I'm definitely not even gonna act sad about it. The more pain they feel as they die, the harder I laugh. Tough lessons suck to learn. Sorry NOT sorry.
As a last note, I think that would be the better world, and it would be defending ourselves from their existence, which is a threat to everyone. As long as that idea is still in someone's head, no one is safe.
Yes, it does. Because when you don't acknowledge someone, you start pretending they shouldn't have any rights at all, and then you can fall victim, far more easily, when they scapegoat someone, or fall victim to that hatred being redirected to an invalid target
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Ummmm.
No?
Fuck nazis and kkk and southern pride and confederate apologists and white supremacists and bigots of all kinds.
Like get fucked. Straight up well known nazis can fucking die. They are worthless. They make a choice to continue being that way. They can do irreparable harm.
Like, fucking no. Just no. You're pathetic.
Why do you think considering someone human is mutually exclusive with wishing death upon them/thinking it's fine for them to die.
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Jury nullification?
wrote last edited by [email protected]On the vehicular manslaughter sure, on drunk driving charges, I should hope not. Sure this time a Nazi scumbag who deserves to die was killed, but next time it might be someone wholely innocent. Just because we hate the victim doesn't mean what she did wasn't reckless.
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I'd say give her back her driver's licence, but its only valid in towns occupied by the kkk/neo-nazis
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Yeah no, saying fascists aren't human beings isn't "funny" or "quirky". Is fascists dying a beautiful thing? Sure. But they're still humans.
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I hope one day you come to realize this is as stupid of a take as saying, "violence is bad!" towards someone bloodied and bruised who just defended themselves from an attack.
At a certain point, someone deserves to be punched in the face. At a certain point, someone deserves to be treated less than a cordial human being.
Ironically, I still agree with, "we need to remember these are human beings". Yes, yes we do. Because we need to ALWAYS remember the sheer depravity other human beings are capable of. That does NOT mean they deserve respect or even life.
Allowing terrible, despicable people to continue being terrible, despicable people is EXACTLY how we got here. Yes, the paradox of tolerance is a difficult chestnut to crack, as it should never simply be, "I hate who they are". Though when someone espouses the very hate you fear and wants to bring that in to the world, it should be obvious...
Just like violence should not be condoned, self defence cannot be condemned, either. What you ask for is condemning self defense because it is not pretty. In times like this, you NEED to understand the emotional equivalence of self defense. Just because someone is willing to throw a punch in direct response, DOES NOT make them equivalent to the people willing to throw the first punch at someone doing nothing wrong.
Nazis and kkk and other scum are attacking the very humanity you want to defend. Yet you want everyone to continue to allow these attacks. You are FAILING the paradox of tolerance.
You're arguing against things I did not say nor imply. I have made no argument here against self defense nor for civility.
I am abiding the paradox of tolerance by not tolerating dehumanizing rhetoric. Because I believe that rhetoric enables fascism.
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this is as stupid of a take as saying, “violence is bad!” towards someone bloodied and bruised who just defended themselves from an attack.
Self defense is different than drunkenly flattening a pedestrian lmao
wrote last edited by [email protected]I'm speaking to the response to people celebrating the victim happening to be a terrible person, not to drunk driving... Please pay better attention to what the person I'm responding to actually said.
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Are you incapable of fighting someone you consider human?
I consider Nazis human, and id 100% get in a fight with them.
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It's literally the one message every old European used to preach to us younger generations back in the day. I remember how important it was to them to make us understand that the minute we start dehumanizing people we don't like, we are repeating the cycle.
It is why movies like Der Untergang exists. We have to understand that the most despicable people who ever lived were still human beings and much closer to ourselves than we like to think.
I have carried with me, my whole life the knowledge that I am fallible and I am capable of evil no matter how good of a person I think I am. To a lesser extent, every time I have thought I was too clever to fall for x, y and z, that's when I have fallen right into it. "I would never end up in an abusive relationship. I have too much self respect for that"
"I'm far too strong to become the doormat in this and that friendship" "I'll never fall for fake information online. I'm too observant" I could never trust myself to believe I would be too smart, kind or principled to not fall into a destructive and abusive pattern of behavior if the circumstances are twisted just right. I think more people would benefit if they reminded themselves of their imperfections and got off their high horses. On Lemmy alone I have encountered far too many holier than thou types who are super duper anti fascist but ironically act exactly like fascists, but to them it doesn't count because they are "on the right side of history".
Am I sad that some nazi KKK guy died? No. But he was human. Most likely a very terrible human, but still human.
I do agree with almost everything you wrote, but I don't understand the moral consequence. One do not have to think they're too smart or too pure to take some kind of solace from the fact that there's one less fascist walking the earth.
To me, that has nothing to do with being "better" as a human. It's just that their project means my/our death. The more they grow, the more we die and vice versa. I do not dehumanize them nor do I think they're stupid or deserve anything.
It's as simple as : the more they grow, the more anything I care for will wither away.
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You sound like an idiot
I don’t believe they are the same species as me. They have devolved to the point where their brains lack empathy, a distinctly human trait.
-You
The subhuman is a biological creature, crafted by nature, which has hands, legs, eyes and mouth, even the semblance of a brain. Nevertheless, this terrible creature is only a partial human being. Although it has features similar to a human, the subhuman is lower on the spiritual and psychological scale than any animal. Inside this being is a cruel chaos of wild, unrestrained passions, nameless desire for destruction, the most primitive desires, the most naked meanness
-Der Untermenshen, Nazi propaganda pamphlet circa 1942
You sound like a Nazi.
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It doesn't really matter if we think they're people. It doesn't really matter if they are. We (all the worthy humans) should treat them as non people.
I can't see a negative here beyond false identification. If there was an objective, without a doubt way to measure if someone was a Nazi, I would support genociding them (and only them). Proactively. It should simply be as illegal to just be a Nazi on the same level as it would be to murder an entire country's population.
Turns out that is either impossible or we're millions of years from figuring out how to do that safely (safe in terms of not harming non Nazis). But the minute we do I'd be on board with punishing them for daring to be born. There is no world of timeline in which being Nazi isn't worthy of immediate execution.
But since all of that is a pipe dream, in the mean time we can at least celebrate when they get taken out naturally. I wouldn't like rub it in the family's face (unless they were Nazis as well) or anything, but I'm definitely not even gonna act sad about it. The more pain they feel as they die, the harder I laugh. Tough lessons suck to learn. Sorry NOT sorry.
As a last note, I think that would be the better world, and it would be defending ourselves from their existence, which is a threat to everyone. As long as that idea is still in someone's head, no one is safe.
I'm not trying to defend them. I'm trying to point out that you're not defending yourself from that idea. In a world where all the nazis have been genocided, that is a world that accepts genocide as a reasonable solution. That world will commit another genocide and sooner than you might think. Especially when you consider that it didn't start with nazism. There were confederates before them and there are zionists after them. If you accept one genocide then any other just has to find the right justifications. Recognizing human susceptibility to that idea is the first step in protecting yourself from it. If we fail to do so, the cycle will never end.
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I do agree with almost everything you wrote, but I don't understand the moral consequence. One do not have to think they're too smart or too pure to take some kind of solace from the fact that there's one less fascist walking the earth.
To me, that has nothing to do with being "better" as a human. It's just that their project means my/our death. The more they grow, the more we die and vice versa. I do not dehumanize them nor do I think they're stupid or deserve anything.
It's as simple as : the more they grow, the more anything I care for will wither away.
You're right, but it makes people uncomfortable so they don't want to agree with you.
This isn't like the economy. It IS a zero sum game. If they succeed, we lose. If they thrive in life, we lose. If they continue to live at all, we lose.
They can CHOOSE to come back to humanity, unlike their victims, but I won't give them any consideration as having value until they do.
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Sounds like a property crime.
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I don’t believe they are the same species as me. They have devolved to the point where their brains lack empathy, a distinctly human trait.
-You
The subhuman is a biological creature, crafted by nature, which has hands, legs, eyes and mouth, even the semblance of a brain. Nevertheless, this terrible creature is only a partial human being. Although it has features similar to a human, the subhuman is lower on the spiritual and psychological scale than any animal. Inside this being is a cruel chaos of wild, unrestrained passions, nameless desire for destruction, the most primitive desires, the most naked meanness
-Der Untermenshen, Nazi propaganda pamphlet circa 1942
You sound like a Nazi.
The difference, in my opinion, between Nazi ideology and believing Nazis not to be humans, is that one was a choice that someone made, and makes every day. The other was born a certain way and cannot change.
Bad choices = no moral value.
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You can celebrate their deaths all you want. But when you start dehumanizing them you're taking notes from their playbook. Be better than them.
Be better than them.
I am already better than them. I don't advocate for needless violence or aggression against people who have shown me neither.
However, I advocate for the use of deadly force against anyone who attempts to circumvent my rights and freedoms in an attempt to oppress or imprison me unjustly.
I won't forget they are human. If I would, that would make it much more difficult to explain why they had to die. An animal kills for survival. A beast kills for sport. A human kills for principle.
It's not about the death or act of killing, it's about sending a message. "I am here, and I refuse to submit to your unjust will."
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If this situation was reversed, MAGA would have raised $100k for her legal defense by now.
