Why Won't the Media Mention Israel's Nukes?
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Probability of nuclear war rises with number of states having nukes. It's best to keep that number as low as possible, so I would not think it wise for Greenland to have nukes. It would not be a sin for Iran to have them, though, given Iran's allies aren't exactly offering a nuclear umbrella.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]best to keep the number low
Yeah it would be cool if Ukraine was a positive example of what happens when you surrender your nuclear weapons.
How about we all just agree to glass any religious fanatics, especially ethnostates, that get their hands on the things?
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Pretty simple. Currently not all nations have nukes, out of those who have, a few have enough to completely destroy a rival nation. This means that the nations with the big nuke stocks are the ones calling the shots as to who should have nukes and how much. Iran being mostly against the US is not allowed nukes, Israel being mostly a US ally is allowed nukes.
This is the unpolitical explanation.
we really should have some deal to allow Iran to have access to nuclear power under supervision
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we really should have some deal to allow Iran to have access to nuclear power under supervision
We used to have that, Trump 45 ripped it up.
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Why would you think they would need to be sanctioned for not using them? China and India both have nuclear weapons and have small skirmishes (granted not as big as this) and we don't discuss sanctioning both of them for it. I would think threatening to use or using them would be the only scenarios where sanctions would be "forced hand" for lack of a better term.
Any state that signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is obligated to sanction any other state that didn't but has nuclear weapons.
China is an authorized to have nukes in the NPT as NWS. However, neither India nor Pakistan are NPT signatories and get mixed sanctions based on who is doing it. The US has sanctions on Pakistan but overt nuclear deals with India. China has deals with Pakistan. Australia had sanctions on India until recently.
Basically international law is only enforced if politically expedient. It shouldn't surprise you that Israel certainly wouldn't actually face any actual sanctions if they declared they had nukes. But they are legitimately afraid of getting the Apartheid South Africa treatment so they don't give any ground on the issue.
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Because then the US any every other IAEA signatory would be obligated to sanction Israel which would be the end of Israel's economy.
No news media dares mention it because they have no proof and would both loose any insider access and get buried in libel cases.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Hahha there is tons of proof, if you use the standard the US used to claim Iraq had WMD and then invade them.
Difference being that Israel actually has nukes and does everything they can for a very long time to stop the IAEA from getting assigned to look at them...
...and Saddam actually let weapons inspectors in, because the only chemical weapons he still had were old artillery shells we fucking sold him in the 80s, ageing and leaking in a few armories that had been cordoned off as hazardous waste dumps.
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Howabout the fact that Israel has a nuclear weapons doctrine?
That you can find random essays written by West Point grads in 30 seconds of websearching... that are about Israel's nuclear doctrine?
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/israel-samson-option-interconnected-world/
Despite Israel also having a 'nuclear ambiguity' policy?
Despite also Ephraim Katzir, Moshe Dayan, Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert all actually making public statements that Israel does have nuclear weapons?
That they caused a giant fucking scandal back in the 60s by stealing actual fissile material from NUMEC, a US company that uh, refines weapons grades uranium?
Look up 'Apollo Affair'.
That the CIA believed Israel had working nukes back in '75?
That they conducted a nuclear test in cooperation with South Africa in '79?
'Vela Incident'.
That the French helped them build an enrichment facility outside of Dimona in the Negev, that an unclassified US report released in 1980 concluded its had working, functional capacity since 1965?
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011997288&view=1up&seq=433
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Why?
Why doesn't the world openly call out this bullshit?
Well it certainly couldn't have anything to do with Mossad and Jeffery Epstein, no sir, nothing like that, definitely not that.
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Hahha there is tons of proof, if you use the standard the US used to claim Iraq had WMD and then invade them.
Difference being that Israel actually has nukes and does everything they can for a very long time to stop the IAEA from getting assigned to look at them...
...and Saddam actually let weapons inspectors in, because the only chemical weapons he still had were old artillery shells we fucking sold him in the 80s, ageing and leaking in a few armories that had been cordoned off as hazardous waste dumps.
....
Howabout the fact that Israel has a nuclear weapons doctrine?
That you can find random essays written by West Point grads in 30 seconds of websearching... that are about Israel's nuclear doctrine?
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/israel-samson-option-interconnected-world/
Despite Israel also having a 'nuclear ambiguity' policy?
Despite also Ephraim Katzir, Moshe Dayan, Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert all actually making public statements that Israel does have nuclear weapons?
That they caused a giant fucking scandal back in the 60s by stealing actual fissile material from NUMEC, a US company that uh, refines weapons grades uranium?
Look up 'Apollo Affair'.
That the CIA believed Israel had working nukes back in '75?
That they conducted a nuclear test in cooperation with South Africa in '79?
'Vela Incident'.
That the French helped them build an enrichment facility outside of Dimona in the Negev, that an unclassified US report released in 1980 concluded its had working, functional capacity since 1965?
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011997288&view=1up&seq=433
...
Why?
Why doesn't the world openly call out this bullshit?
Well it certainly couldn't have anything to do with Mossad and Jeffery Epstein, no sir, nothing like that, definitely not that.
Sorry for the confusion when I said "no proof". I meant "no official sources". Everyone knows Israel has nukes they just have to pretend they aren't for the legal reasons I stated.
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Any state that signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty is obligated to sanction any other state that didn't but has nuclear weapons.
China is an authorized to have nukes in the NPT as NWS. However, neither India nor Pakistan are NPT signatories and get mixed sanctions based on who is doing it. The US has sanctions on Pakistan but overt nuclear deals with India. China has deals with Pakistan. Australia had sanctions on India until recently.
Basically international law is only enforced if politically expedient. It shouldn't surprise you that Israel certainly wouldn't actually face any actual sanctions if they declared they had nukes. But they are legitimately afraid of getting the Apartheid South Africa treatment so they don't give any ground on the issue.
Yeah I don't see why anyone would care bout that treaty if people can ignore it. Shit the U.S. /India have 1.5 billion dollar satellite being launched into space this week from India. I don't see why we would be sanctioning people and building future endeavors with them.
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Yeah I don't see why anyone would care bout that treaty if people can ignore it. Shit the U.S. /India have 1.5 billion dollar satellite being launched into space this week from India. I don't see why we would be sanctioning people and building future endeavors with them.
Yeah I don’t see why anyone would care bout that treaty if people can ignore it.
Except we magically give all the shits about it when it comes to Iran. All treaties are selectively applied. Welcome to the world of foreign relations.
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Sorry for the confusion when I said "no proof". I meant "no official sources". Everyone knows Israel has nukes they just have to pretend they aren't for the legal reasons I stated.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]I get what you are saying but there are extensive, publically released offcial documents from the US government that the US has been very much convinced Israel has had nukes since the 60s.
What... what kind of ... what can be more official than a declassified CIA document that says 'yeah we're pretty sure Israel has nukes'?
From all the minutes (transcripts) of Congressional hearings about the Apollo Affair, which also had FBI reports and CIA reports and I think the NSA as well?
I am not asking this rhetorically, to just belabor a point for emphasis.
I am asking you: If all this shit doesn't meet your 'official source' criteria... what does?
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Iran needs nukes to defend itself from a nuclear armed aggressor. Everyone needs nukes for that reason. Greenland needs nukes to protect itself from the US.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]with extinction technology, i don't know what the answer is. i think you either need a high level of trust and cooperation between all wielding parties which never goes away, or you need a singular world government which has no reason to arm itself with such a thing.
the stalemate situation where all enemies have a gun to point at one another so that nobody fires a shot is crazy. that can't be the solution.
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Yeah I don’t see why anyone would care bout that treaty if people can ignore it.
Except we magically give all the shits about it when it comes to Iran. All treaties are selectively applied. Welcome to the world of foreign relations.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]It's an interesting satellite though if you hadn't seen anything about it yet.
Seems like it can monitor everything down to moisture levels in soil and is supposed to pass the data for free to research companies, but of course that's what they say now, and who knows how that will play out. Otherwise building agricultural models and seeing how areas are changing over time could be really neat.
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I get what you are saying but there are extensive, publically released offcial documents from the US government that the US has been very much convinced Israel has had nukes since the 60s.
What... what kind of ... what can be more official than a declassified CIA document that says 'yeah we're pretty sure Israel has nukes'?
From all the minutes (transcripts) of Congressional hearings about the Apollo Affair, which also had FBI reports and CIA reports and I think the NSA as well?
I am not asking this rhetorically, to just belabor a point for emphasis.
I am asking you: If all this shit doesn't meet your 'official source' criteria... what does?
Its not my criteria, its about what will legally hold up in a US court against an AIPAC or ADL libel case. Remember, we're talking about reasons why news sources don't mention it. Not what I personally think is adequate proof.
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That is the conventional wisdom. Wisdom written by people with nukes who can't stop bullying everyone else.
the conventional wisdom checks out to me. Sometimes bullies happen to be right.
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The world ends because a bunch of elderly white dudes want to measure dicks. Yay!
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Its not my criteria, its about what will legally hold up in a US court against an AIPAC or ADL libel case. Remember, we're talking about reasons why news sources don't mention it. Not what I personally think is adequate proof.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]Ooooh ok your framework is media don't say due to fear of being sued for libel.
Uh well, that...
Well ok.
If we pretend the rule of law still exists at that level, which it doesn't...
Then uh, all the media has to do is just bring up all this stuff, all these documents, have Seymour Hersh on to talk about it, read the quotes from former Israeli PMs, show the unclassified documents and just always give context and caveats... and then just ask 'Why is nobody taking this seriously? Why do we not have definitive answers?'
Assuming the rule of law as we knew it in say, 2018 existed, they'd be fine. Maybe the ADL or AIPAC could try to sue them, but it wouldn't work.
But this is all moot because if somebody, MSNBC or whatever, did that, today, what would happen is a Scientology style intimidation/terror/ruin your life campaign x100 on everyone something like 2 or 3 direct personal connections away from everyone speaking in that news segment, orchestrated by Mossad.
And/Or, the entire Republican apparatus doing the same. And then directing stochastic lethal terrorism at them, or just fuck you, executive order says you in particular go to CECOT, bye bye!
Or the Supreme Court just makes another completely nonsensical ruling that goes against centuries of precedent and effectively destroys the first ammendment.
Thats the actual reason why no one does this, at this moment.
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The 'state of Israel' has no legal standing to... sue the US for reputational damages or making false claims.
They would also... in this hypothetical, you know, have to actually prove, in court, that... that they are being lied about.
AIPAC or the ADL would have to attempt to construe it as hate speech. Which wouldn't work in 2018 land where the law and legal system still exist and work and stuff.
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Why won't the mainstream media of the Western bloc, a well known propaganda apparatus that will always spin things in favour of capitalists and Western imperialism, mention Israel's (a Western colonial project) nukes? Gee, I wonder why.
Now this is a classic lemmy world salad
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- racism
- white supremacy
- imperialism
- judeo-christian values
- western civilization
- only democracy in the middle east
take your pick
Israel violates international laws and has been since 1948, invades its neighbours and commits genocide, and western media still portrays it as a victim.
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What's with these weird imaginary articles? The media has talked enough about their nukes, western youtube is filled with documentaries and western wiki has detailed info on vela incident and other related information, not even talking about the fact that I, a westerner, learned about Israel's nukes from western media. Idiocy.
As an example: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/15/truth-israels-secret-nuclear-arsenal
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- racism
- white supremacy
- imperialism
- judeo-christian values
- western civilization
- only democracy in the middle east
take your pick
Israel violates international laws and has been since 1948, invades its neighbours and commits genocide, and western media still portrays it as a victim.
I'll throw post WW2 apologetics into the ring. Can't blame Israel publicly without risking career suicide, both in politics and corporate.
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- racism
- white supremacy
- imperialism
- judeo-christian values
- western civilization
- only democracy in the middle east
take your pick
Israel violates international laws and has been since 1948, invades its neighbours and commits genocide, and western media still portrays it as a victim.
being persecuted for decades/centuries priors helps shield them from any criticism, because they can claim anti-semitism every time.
