Plex now want to SELL your personal data
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For one, they moved from open source to closed source without notice.
https://web.archive.org/web/20181212104719/https://github.com/MediaBrowser/Emby/issues/3479
wrote last edited by [email protected]Thanks for the info. I'm sure it'll also be useful to others reading the comments.
This sucks because, functionally-wise I have zero issues with Emby. But morally, this bothers me a lot. I thought it was going to just be because of the license (I think I paid $99 around Christmas a few years ago for a Lifetime license).
Guess I'll be switching to Jellyfin then and donating to the project. If I paid for Emby, there's no reason I can't donate to a free, open-source project being developed and maintained by volunteers.
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Text:
I consent to Plex to: (i) sell certain personal information (hashed emails, advertising identifiers) to third-parties for advertising and marketing purposes; and (ii) store and/or access certain personal information (advertising identifiers, IP address, content being watched) on my device(s) and share that information with Plex’s advertising partners. This data is used to deliver personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. Your consent applies to all devices on which you have Plex installed. You can withdraw your consent at any time in
Account Settings or using this page.Soure: https://www.plex.tv/vendors/
(Might have to clear cache)Can also read about the changes here:
https://www.plex.tv/about/privacy-legal/Man Plex when fully enshitified FAST!
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Can someone clue me in on the reason why anyone would prefer Plex instead of Jellyfin?
Years ago, I tried out Jellyfin (Emby at the time) and it couldn't do chromecasting with subtitles (probably fixed by now, this was a long time ago). Since I wanted to watch anime, I bought a Plex lifetime subscription instead, and I'm too lazy to switch.
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You called him a liar and then got pissy when he fired back. Grow a thicker skin or don't start shit.
wrote last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
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You are actually wrong about that first assumption, I did try both at the same time and the problems with Jellyfin moved me over to Plex.
I inferred it from this:
Plex was one of the first things I hosted because all you have to do is installing like you would any local application and it just works
And anyway, plex and jellyfin have different media library configuration requirements. Even if you did them at the same time, you'd have to be kind of lucky to have configured them both on the same media volume correctly without reading any of the documentation or having experience with docker ACL rules.
Just as a for-instance (since I don't see any specifics), sharing a media volume across separated docker containers on linux requires mapping the same users and usergroups to each container. It's assumed you should know this, if you're deploying a stack of services on a server, because containers are designed to be isolated and secure - containers are restricted to accessing files in their approved ACL, so that a bad actor can't get access to a separate volume from a compromised service. One possible problem you were having (again, just a guess) is that jellyfin was assigning itself ownership of the files/folders on the media volume every time it did its scan, and Plex no longer had permission to access them. It actually doesn't matter which service was there first - as soon as you had two services accessing the same volume you would have run into this issue. It depends on how you configured both services, and if you gave them privileged access or mapped users properly, ect.
and in fact ran just as well in a container in the NAS holding the files as it did natively on both Windows and Linux
If you're running both services on a store-bought NAS, the problem could have also been a misunderstanding about the combined overhead requirement for the services. Without making any assumptions about how much thought you put into your configuration, I'd check that as a part of troubleshooting. But, again, seems like you don't give a fuck about troubleshooting your customized service stack and would rather use a ready-made product. That's fine.
turns out there are plenty of applications that are pretty agnostic about running inside of a container or not, Plex included.
Jellyfin included also. I'm not sure what the point you're making though.
Frankly, the biggest issue of doing that, besides how redundant it is, is that Jellyfin will insist on writing a whole bunch of garbage all over your library if you want to set it up its way.
I agree it's redundant, which is why I personally only deploy jellyfin now. As far as jellyfin writing to your media drive...... Yea, I guess that is a difference between the services. This isn't really a problem if you configure your containers correctly, but if you don't want to mess with that stuff I can see why it might be an issue for you. Plex may be storing those files on its container volume instead of the mounted media volume, or it could be storing them on their remote server (it's been a while since I had plex running), which is a fine way to do it too. There are advantages to writing it to the media volume, but I won't bore you with that
Let alone say that if you didn’t build your car yourself you aren’t skilled enough to have one, which is the actually equivalence here.
Good thing nobody is telling you not to have a homelab or use selfhosted services. If you want to use Plex and only want to drive automatic transmissions, go for it. Doesn't change my preference or enthusiasm for jellyfin or manual transmissions, though. And given the opportunity, i'll still passionately debate the advantages to learning stickshift and open-sourced and customizable self-hosted applications. And if you give them a try and run into problems, i'll gladly help you try to solve them if you're willing to engage with it - but if you'd rather just complain about how much my preference sucks then i'll have no problem telling you to stick with what you know next time.
Man, you're really itching to talk shop about specifics and complexities and it really isn't about that.
The guy said "why does anybody still consider Plex" about the slightly misleading privacy policy excerpt and a bunch of us pointed out UX and accessibility are reasons. This entire tangent spawns from me claiming I had technical issues on top of the UX stuff and you being super excited to assume it's a skill issue and maybe get to troubleshoot a bit.
Except it wasn't, I'm not particularly interested and the technical issues weren't even the primary reason I moved to something else.
For what it's worth, I barely remember what the setup was when I messed around with Jellyfin because I move things around a bunch and despite this conversation suddenly hinging on it, I didn't think much of it beyond "oh, this sucks, I guess I'll just do Plex instead". It was almost certainly not Plex and Jellyfin running simultaneously on two containers sharing resources, though. I have way too many loose computers bouncing around the house for this not to have been some test run natively installing it on whatever I had lying around, which is also why the Plex server I have now has been on three different machines since then (and is still running natively because why the hell not, being adamant that everything needs to be on some overdone docker setup is just nerds being nerds).
Look, I respect your hobbies, but I reserve the right to find you extremely annoying when you try to patronize people who are actually trying to get shit done just because you're excited at the opportunity to exlpain the difference between a bind and a volume at someone whether they need the explanation or not. The reality of it is if you want to be nerdy and all hobbyist about having a home server (I fully reject the term "lab") that rabbit hole goes deep. You have tons of runway to go nuts about dedicated server hardware and networking software while letting people who just kinda want to be able to open their media without having to plug in a physical drive do their thing.
Jellyfin doesn't HAVE to be complicated. It's not good that it is. All this tier of software that does useful stuff to replace corporate subscription crap doesn't need to be any harder to use and maintain than your average Windows application. Everybody would benefit from a concerted effort to take the faff out of it. And I pinky promise that you'll still have a lifelong hobby if and when that happens.
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Well, if you have an issue with people knowing you use Plex at all, then... tough luck, because I hate to tell you this, but a media server needs a client and it's a vanishingly small group of people that will use either Plex or Jellyfin clients and not let Apple, Google, LG, Samsung or whatever other device is running the client software that this is happening.
I give zero craps about whether Google knows I or anybody else uses Plex via their login because they already know this form the Google Play Store, along with the manufacturer of every TV we collectively own.
And for the record I do not live in the US and the way their absolutely idiotic copyright loopholes apply here is very much in question. It doesn't get tested in court much because the times it has been it didn't go particularly great for copyright holders. Private copying owned media is a right regulated by law here and I will continue to do so. If a corporation wants to deliberate with our local courts whether my owning a drive that happens to not be super picky about on-disc DRM I don't have anything particularly intense going on this week.
Ironically, in our own dumb legal implementation we are allowed to back up movies but there is a carved exception for software, so making a copy of a game you own is a bigger deal. Go figure.
Well, if you have an issue with people knowing you use Plex at all, then… tough luck, because I hate to tell you this, but a media server needs a client and it’s a vanishingly small group of people that will use either Plex or Jellyfin clients and not let Apple, Google, LG, Samsung or whatever other device is running the client software that this is happening.
First:
- not if you install these applications through fdroid or install from source
- not if you block dns queries that report to those servers
- not if you access the service via webURL
but also, it's not just that they know you use plex or jellyfin, it's that they know which plex server you use and from what devices you stream from. If, for example, plex decides they want to limit the number of households can stream from a single server (like they've already done), all they'd have to do is lock or limit people's google SSO to that server. They could also report which users are associated with servers engaged in illegal activity when requested, or they could region lock their services or specific media IP's by request from copyright holders..... There's a ton of abuses that are made possible by even that tiny bit of information they share/collect.
You might not care about it, but a lot of us do. Nobody is trying to convince you to stop using Plex, we're just trying to explain why we really do not want to use it ourselves
And for the record I do not live in the US and the way their absolutely idiotic copyright loopholes apply here is very much in question. It doesn’t get tested in court much because the times it has been it didn’t go particularly great for copyright holders. Private copying owned media is a right regulated by law here and I will continue to do so.
I have no idea where you live, but plex is an american company. Plex will 100% be forced to comply with copyright takedown requests, and could absolutely penalize you for infringing on american copyright law. Could you be arrested? Maybe not. But there are still a ton of ways you could get fucked because Plex has enshittified their service and has made zero commitments to protecting you or your identity.
we are allowed to back up movies
small thing, but in the US this is technically allowed, but as soon as you format-shift the media (e.g. rip a dvd into a digital format) it is no longer protected. It's assumed that 'backing up movies' is literally 'duplicate the media in exactly the same format it was originally purchased in'. On top of that, it's also doubly illegal to then share that media, even as a direct stream via a home server. Idk where you live but I'm actually am not aware of any country who allows for your stated use (unless you're somewhere without extradition or trade relations with the US like Russia or Cuba, because they don't give a fuck about US legal claims). Not that it's commonly prosecuted even in the US, but US companies routinely get takedown requests for that shit and Plex will absolutely throw you under the bus.
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If we find out "I do not consent" opts out, I'm fine with it. If we find out "I do not consent" leads to a "Close our account" page, it's time for pitchforks, especially since they recently had a huge sale on lifetime memberships.
If we find out “I do not consent” opts out, I’m fine with it.
That's exactly what it does. I got the prompt on my system, I said no, and it said ok and everything proceeded on like normal.
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If we find out "I do not consent" opts out, I'm fine with it. If we find out "I do not consent" leads to a "Close our account" page, it's time for pitchforks, especially since they recently had a huge sale on lifetime memberships.
"I do not consent" is indeed an opt out and you can use plex just as you were before.
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Same. I bought the lifetime pass on sale many years ago, my setup is still working fine without me having to have touched it for at least the past 3 years outside of applying an update from time to time. I don't stream their free shows or movies and have those setup so that they don't even show up as an option on my tv.
Do I wish it was still the same company it was a decade ago? Of course... but so far they haven't impacted my experience to the point that I feel the need to replace it with something else. The second that happens I will be spinning up Jellyfin.
Plex was the reason why I learned Docker + watchtower, so that I wouldn't have to worry about updates (work smarter not harder). Now I have like 35 containers and am comfortable with docker.
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::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
:::Yup. And letting them collect data on what goes through their service is the cost.
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I dropped my library in, Jellyfin indexed it and streamed first try. What didn't work for you?
Not the user you replied to, but for me, the issue I've been running into is with featured albums or albums with album artist metadata info filled out {image}.
Its been a minute so I dont have the specific cause I was focused on. This problem was more prevalent in EDM tracks
https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/5fa246a8-22bc-4bfc-90f5-d9ff04b768a8.jpeg
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I don't know why everyone in the selfhosting community still even mentions Plex or uses it.
It's closed source, not free; Jellyfin is a no brainer yet people still go to Plex??
I completely agree. I thought Plex would be fast in the collective rearview mirror as soon as they started forcing connections to their servers, pay-walling, etc. I also had issues with the database corrupting and causing huge slowdowns. I spent days trying and failing to preserve my ratings, watch data, etc.
In the end, I switched to a much simpler setup of an NFS/CIFS share accessed by Kodi on my Nvidia Shield TV. If Kodi chokes (happened once since 2017), I can just wipe the app and/or reinstall and then import the local metadata (XML or NFO IIRC). That takes about five minutes. It just works. Kodi also gives me access to the IAGL, so that's a huge plus.
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Maybe I'm just callous but I just don't see that as a problem myself. If I'm offering my own self hosted services for friends or family, the least they can do is put in some effort to learn how to use it. If they couldn't bother, that is their loss.
If people operate a car, the least they could do is learn how to change their brakes or do an oil change.
To most non-tech people, that’s the level of complexity you’re expecting them to adhere to.
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As I said, I've yet to find a selfhosting solution half as good as PlexAmp. It's very, very good and arguably a better service than normal Plex
wrote last edited by [email protected]Thirded on both your points.
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Can someone clue me in on the reason why anyone would prefer Plex instead of Jellyfin?
wrote last edited by [email protected]Because Jellyfin et al are all still very much "open source projects" in terms of UI/UX and it is still "missing" so many features.
For me? The big reasons why I just use plex boil down to:
- Maybe 80% of the time, I can cache an episode or a movie locally on my tablet when I am going on travel. This is great if I am doing a rewatch of something or don't super care about The Experience and just want to watch the next few episodes of a show in the evening. With Plex, this is trivial. With SOME of the third party jellyfin apps, this can be sort of worked around but then becomes a hassle to sync watch statistics (which episodes were watched or even where I left off because a buddy wanted to go out for drinks).
- Remote watching is similarly a mess. Plex has pretty okay-good systems to treat my home server as a "cloud" resource with a single forwarded port. While even that is very questionable security wise, Jellyfin is still "figure it out yourself". Which can be done with setting up a vpn or using Tailscale but adds additional complexities.
- Plenty of other "quirks" along similar lines
My personal opinion? For something that only "tech savvy" people are using more or less locally, Jellyfin is fine. For something that "just works"? There is no competition with Plex. And considering how many of the Jellyfin workarounds end up being "just download a copy of the file locally and watch it in VLC"... why would I use Jellyfin at all in that case when I could otherwise just mount a samba share or use Kodi (that is the latest incarnation of XBMC or whatever the samba share frontend we all used to watch porn on our playstations was, right?).
To be clear. I check in on Jellyfin probably every other year at this point? I WANT an alternative to Plex. But... Jellyfin ain't it.
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Yup. And letting them collect data on what goes through their service is the cost.
Happens with most services.
I’m sure that one boutique website you shopped on had buried in the T&C that they can sell your data.
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Well, if you have an issue with people knowing you use Plex at all, then… tough luck, because I hate to tell you this, but a media server needs a client and it’s a vanishingly small group of people that will use either Plex or Jellyfin clients and not let Apple, Google, LG, Samsung or whatever other device is running the client software that this is happening.
First:
- not if you install these applications through fdroid or install from source
- not if you block dns queries that report to those servers
- not if you access the service via webURL
but also, it's not just that they know you use plex or jellyfin, it's that they know which plex server you use and from what devices you stream from. If, for example, plex decides they want to limit the number of households can stream from a single server (like they've already done), all they'd have to do is lock or limit people's google SSO to that server. They could also report which users are associated with servers engaged in illegal activity when requested, or they could region lock their services or specific media IP's by request from copyright holders..... There's a ton of abuses that are made possible by even that tiny bit of information they share/collect.
You might not care about it, but a lot of us do. Nobody is trying to convince you to stop using Plex, we're just trying to explain why we really do not want to use it ourselves
And for the record I do not live in the US and the way their absolutely idiotic copyright loopholes apply here is very much in question. It doesn’t get tested in court much because the times it has been it didn’t go particularly great for copyright holders. Private copying owned media is a right regulated by law here and I will continue to do so.
I have no idea where you live, but plex is an american company. Plex will 100% be forced to comply with copyright takedown requests, and could absolutely penalize you for infringing on american copyright law. Could you be arrested? Maybe not. But there are still a ton of ways you could get fucked because Plex has enshittified their service and has made zero commitments to protecting you or your identity.
we are allowed to back up movies
small thing, but in the US this is technically allowed, but as soon as you format-shift the media (e.g. rip a dvd into a digital format) it is no longer protected. It's assumed that 'backing up movies' is literally 'duplicate the media in exactly the same format it was originally purchased in'. On top of that, it's also doubly illegal to then share that media, even as a direct stream via a home server. Idk where you live but I'm actually am not aware of any country who allows for your stated use (unless you're somewhere without extradition or trade relations with the US like Russia or Cuba, because they don't give a fuck about US legal claims). Not that it's commonly prosecuted even in the US, but US companies routinely get takedown requests for that shit and Plex will absolutely throw you under the bus.
You might not care about it, but a lot of us do. Nobody is trying to convince you to stop using Plex, we're just trying to explain why we really do not want to use it ourselves
No you are not. This thread straight up opens on "why would anybody use Plex" and this whole branch is about how people don't want anybody using Google for login.
You are presenting a lot of great hypotheticals and I'll be happy to stop using Plex if and when they stop being hypotheticals. They are, though, so I don't particularly mind.
Especially because we've moved from "oh, maybe get your family to not use Google to log in" to "actually, get them to move to F-droid or install from source and do so under proper DNS filtering to stop telemetry gathering".
Friend, if people's relatives were willing to install their Plex client from source they wouldn't need anybody to host a Plex server for them. What the hell are you going on about and how detached are you from how people use software?
I swear, online... man, "posers" is so harsh, but I can't find a better word. They always pretend they are running some top secret off-the-grid operation like big corpo is coming after them specifically. Your data is probably not that tightly kept (mostly because a bunch of it probably doesn't depend on you) and it's not that much of a priority.
Oh, and while I get that you get a kick of repeating what your understanding of US law is at me, over here backing up to additional media is explicitly supported by the right to private copy. As is, implicitly breaking DRM.
Not that it matters because nobody is enforcing these at individuals for private use anyway because the rules being sought are absurd and holders know it and they just want scary tools to wave in front of individual users and to actually deploy against major sharers. You are playing out this weird scenario where a company goes to Plex to get your name as if Plex doesn't have a business built on helping you do the thing you think they're chasing you for and has a ton more money they could be sued for. It's nonsense. The reality of it is it makes you feel cool and savvy to secure your home computer as if it held state secrets.
And that's fine, but don't act like anything else is insanity. It's kind of obnoxious.
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If people operate a car, the least they could do is learn how to change their brakes or do an oil change.
To most non-tech people, that’s the level of complexity you’re expecting them to adhere to.
wrote last edited by [email protected]That is a very strange equivocation to make and not at all like what I said. But if I did give someone a free car, yes I would expect them to take care of it. And if they don't, and the car breaks, then yes that is also their loss.
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Yup. And letting them collect data on what goes through their service is the cost.
wrote last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
askldjfals;jflsad;
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Exactly why on so many things it's like... even when it looks like they are getting it, they don't get it. Kind of like watching bluesky rising right now. Unless I'm majorly missing something here. It looks like it's kind of open and kind of federated...
Except in a form that no one can feasibly create their own node. One change in leadership or goals of leadership away, and it can turn into the same neo nazi trash that people are joining it to get away from.
it can turn into the same neo nazi trash that people are joining it to get away from.
And it will. Capitalism makes it inevitable.
