They've got a point!
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i'm not explaining Black politics or abolition movements to you. i'm not the one to do it and you're WAY off base about any of it so i won't be able to do it without getting really angry and unkind. but the history of liberation struggles are out there and relatively easy to find if you're willing to read up on political thinkers like Harriett Tubman, Malcom X, Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King Jr, bell hooks, Nikki Giovanni, Carter G Woodson, Rosa Parks, Daisey Bates, Fannie Lou Hamer, Audre Lorde, Clara Luper, Toni Morrison, and Bayard Rustin.
i'd point you to more contemporaries, but pan African liberation movements and anarchocommunist resistance groups in this moment are intentionally underground because the thought leaders are largely double or triple marginalized by their race, class, gender, and sexual orientation. so instead i'd point you to just reading up on for us by us mutual aid networks such as SW VA Mutual Aide which is seeking restitution and the restoration of right of prisoners held in one of America's most horrific maximum security state prisons.
also, i beg of you, when you talk about Black politics, capitalize the "B". leaving it lowercase makes you look like a performative shitlib who doesn't know shit about fuck about what pan African and abolitionist movements stand for. you criticize americans for not knowing about leftist politics but you alienate the most progressive and left americans by using the signifiers of white supremacy instead of the ones preferred by the very people you claim you want to coalition with world wide. which is part of why i say i can't explain it to you, because you're making me so fucking angry with this uninformed shit that it's making it impossible to coalition build.
inform yourself. read theory and history somewhere other than the eurocentric (any anglocentric society like america is inherently eurocentric before you say lemmy is amerocentric) dominated cesspit that is lemmy. and yes i saw your comment about how "inform yourself", "take the redpill", and "get woke" are all cringe to you, but you lack perspective and accuse the rest of us of lacking perspective, and it isn't helpful. its hurtful. and when you read theory, keep in mind the theorists most marxist-leninists read were white people investigating Black liberation struggles. and since stalin (the originator of the term marxist-leninist) died, 72 years have passed. there's new theory out there based one this entire lifetime of praxis. most of it generated by Black people seeking the answer to the question "what will it take for us to be free"
tldr: which Black community? the overarching Black community that's been pushed to the side starting 2600 years ago. the one people who look like me and sound like you refuse, as a whole, to listen to. the one that has a sense of community, oneness, and Ubuntu that is completely foreign to the eurocentric world view
wrote last edited by [email protected]also, i beg of you, when you talk about Black politics, capitalize the “B”. leaving it lowercase makes you look like a performative shitlib who doesn’t know shit about fuck about what pan African and abolitionist movements stand for. you criticize americans for not knowing about leftist politics but you alienate the most progressive and left americans by using the signifiers of white supremacy instead of the ones preferred by the very people you claim you want to coalition with world wide. which is part of why i say i can’t explain it to you, because you’re making me so fucking angry with this uninformed shit that it’s making it impossible to coalition build.
Ironic that you start policing language/punctuation while trying to break woke stereotypes.
you criticize americans for not knowing about leftist politics but you alienate the most progressive and left americans
Yes, that is exactly my intention. Driving wreckers out is important.
You think the woke movement "belongs to" the 0.5% of people who are African-American, and you equate it with the entire struggle against oppression and colonialism.
The anti-colonial struggle certainly does not "belong to" the USA. They want the whole hog: possession of the pro-colonial and anti-colonial movements.
Look at what happened here. The founder of Irish Republicanism, Wolfe Tone, said that the aim was "to break the connection with England". The 20th century Republicans got influenced by the Usan 'civil rights' ideology and lost the war. There were many factors behind the defeat of anti-colonial struggle (military & intel factors), but adopting an alien ideology from the imperial core didn't help. We should have stuck to our homegrown ideology and broken the connection with the imperialists.
Even by your own focus, empowering that 0.5%, the woke movement is a historical failure and has driven them right. Here's some analysis of why: https://web.archive.org/web/20250724121358/https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/07/24/opinion/minority-voters-trump-right.html
The anti-colonial movement does not belong to the imperial core: it belongs to the revolutionaries and class-conscious workers&peasants of the world. And most of us are not obsessed with skin-colour (or punctuation!) like the Usan media wants us to be.
i won’t be able to do it without getting really angry and unkind.... i can’t explain it to you, because you’re making me so fucking angry with this uninformed shit that it’s making it impossible to coalition build.
Exactly. The wokes always crumble when someone disagrees with them, and resort to emotions and censorship. Because their point is moral grandstanding, not building a sensible movement. The leftist ThirdWorldist movement dgaf about these things, and are able to take pushback without becoming overwhelmed by emotion. That's necessary to build success.
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Yeah but have you noticed how despite the fact that they normally hate progress and change because it makes their control harder, they're utterly obsessed with AI.
This place is obsessed with Ai (LLMs) to be fair.
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On top of all of that he used "I couldn't care less" correctly.
Do people use that incorrectly a lot?
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Thanks to the commenter who reminded me that it's not bad to be reminded that the term is only a pejorative because conservative racists made it so.
Can we really reach MAGA racists with memes like this? Where’s the conversation about actually helping them awaken?
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Thanks to the commenter who reminded me that it's not bad to be reminded that the term is only a pejorative because conservative racists made it so.
The anti woke crowd .. hear that it is in someway anti racist
And dismiss it . They like their racism... It makes them feel important and powerful
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Do people use that incorrectly a lot?
There's a whole country of them.
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Can we really reach MAGA racists with memes like this? Where’s the conversation about actually helping them awaken?
wrote last edited by [email protected]After ten years of maga, and thirty or so years of watching R point in exactly this direction with every conservative policy or position, and every argument I ever had that included being called a "bleeding heart" or worse, I'm just here to wait for us to get it over with already, and then warm my hands on the smoldering wreckage of our nation that remains when Trump is done wrecking it.
Eventually I will die of old age while continuing to give no shits about maga or anything they have brought upon themselves while consigning the rest of us to the dystopian hell hole they cheered and voted for. The nation will still be recovering from Trump though, if we're lucky.
They've wrecked the lives of countless people with their slavish devotion to a candidate who embodies the worst of what US culture has ever had to offer. Some of those people are people I love and care about, but they are all people.
And on top of it all - they still have no objection to where things are headed until it affects them personally.
Fuck every last Trump voter. I'm very happy to let better, less jaded people than I am go the Andrew Johnson route. (not that I think it was a good idea the first time either) I don't need or want any maga in my life.
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After ten years of maga, and thirty or so years of watching R point in exactly this direction with every conservative policy or position, and every argument I ever had that included being called a "bleeding heart" or worse, I'm just here to wait for us to get it over with already, and then warm my hands on the smoldering wreckage of our nation that remains when Trump is done wrecking it.
Eventually I will die of old age while continuing to give no shits about maga or anything they have brought upon themselves while consigning the rest of us to the dystopian hell hole they cheered and voted for. The nation will still be recovering from Trump though, if we're lucky.
They've wrecked the lives of countless people with their slavish devotion to a candidate who embodies the worst of what US culture has ever had to offer. Some of those people are people I love and care about, but they are all people.
And on top of it all - they still have no objection to where things are headed until it affects them personally.
Fuck every last Trump voter. I'm very happy to let better, less jaded people than I am go the Andrew Johnson route. (not that I think it was a good idea the first time either) I don't need or want any maga in my life.
In short: pissing into the wind?
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Thanks to the commenter who reminded me that it's not bad to be reminded that the term is only a pejorative because conservative racists made it so.
Hey, that's just name calling. It's better to describe them by what they actually are: narcissistic, egocentric, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, narrow minded haters.
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In short: pissing into the wind?
You are if you have any interest in getting me to take a kinder, gentler approach to Republicans.
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Can we really reach MAGA racists with memes like this? Where’s the conversation about actually helping them awaken?
you go ahead and do that
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Well u better get used to losing cos being right doesn't mean jack shit in the face of overwhelming violence.
Holy shit, typical conversation with a conservative. And yes it does. Moral high ground is a great combination with self defence, it allows the person to be unrestrained when they otherwise would be.
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Thanks to the commenter who reminded me that it's not bad to be reminded that the term is only a pejorative because conservative racists made it so.
Oh god... Imagine actually accepting tolerance.
I swear that "woke" is what these fucking troglodytes say when they know they've lost an argument. It's like some sort of primal defense mechanism.
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Can we really reach MAGA racists with memes like this? Where’s the conversation about actually helping them awaken?
I'd offer to help you but I need to change my cat's litter.
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The opposite of being woke is being asleep and oblivious to what's going on. It's crazy people say they aren't woke and think that's like a good thing lol.
It's like saying "I'm a fucking idiot" and being smug about it
“I’m a fucking idiot”
That IS what I hear whenever a magat bleats. -
Thanks to the commenter who reminded me that it's not bad to be reminded that the term is only a pejorative because conservative racists made it so.
wrote last edited by [email protected]It isn’t an insult. I don’t feel insulted by being called woke. I distribute a lot of harm reduction supplies and I get a lot of eye rolling, hard exhaling, shouldn’t they just take responsibility for themselvesing, I had hard times in my life tooing, etc. I am woke. Fuck you gonna do about it? Nazi wimps.
I feel insulted it is used in the name of bills designed to inhibit help to people in crisis. But I am (maybe) accidentally in a job that wasn’t meant to exist? I don’t seem to report to anybody? So I am going to do whatever I want until they fire me. And what I want to do is harm reduction and crisis intervention.
Edit: and since the Internet has maybe provided me with a soapbox, I will continue. You can seek help even if you aren’t homeless. It is better you do before that is even a possibility. If you feel substance use is diminishing your enjoyment of life, come for help.
I do understand hesitation. In some places, this costs money. Even in places these services are free, you feel shame. People are judging you. And — to be honest — a lot of healthcare providers are also judgemental. And I am currently in a small town of fewer than 2000 people. Your private business is maybe going to be everyone’s entertainment. Be strong. Once you do get into the mental health and substance use pipeline, we are mostly good and we are mostly there because we have big hearts yearning to help.
A lot of the reason I have opted to spend much of my time in the community is to overcome those barriers to access to help. Come say “hi”. I will say “hi” too. Maybe that is the first step. Worst case scenario is we were friendly to each other. Gross!
And if you are one of those skeptics who have said I am enabling substance users and let me know that opinion— even angrily — water under the bridge; you are not the first person experiencing substance related symptoms; we got you. Don’t let embarrassment stop you, please. Come back for help whenever you like. Seriously, I’m happy to help. I look forward to meeting you (again). And — if you don’t live near me — someone in your area is too.
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The point isn't to take sides with the sheep, it's about self-awareness. Recognizing that hating ignorant people is just a different form of ignorance. We're all burdened by or own ignorance even if we don't know it.
NO. They are assholes. I am NOTHING like Donny 2 Dolls' cult followers. I stay out of other peoples lives.
I feel that people like YOU just let them off the hook, and are part of the problem. -
i'm not explaining Black politics or abolition movements to you. i'm not the one to do it and you're WAY off base about any of it so i won't be able to do it without getting really angry and unkind. but the history of liberation struggles are out there and relatively easy to find if you're willing to read up on political thinkers like Harriett Tubman, Malcom X, Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King Jr, bell hooks, Nikki Giovanni, Carter G Woodson, Rosa Parks, Daisey Bates, Fannie Lou Hamer, Audre Lorde, Clara Luper, Toni Morrison, and Bayard Rustin.
i'd point you to more contemporaries, but pan African liberation movements and anarchocommunist resistance groups in this moment are intentionally underground because the thought leaders are largely double or triple marginalized by their race, class, gender, and sexual orientation. so instead i'd point you to just reading up on for us by us mutual aid networks such as SW VA Mutual Aide which is seeking restitution and the restoration of right of prisoners held in one of America's most horrific maximum security state prisons.
also, i beg of you, when you talk about Black politics, capitalize the "B". leaving it lowercase makes you look like a performative shitlib who doesn't know shit about fuck about what pan African and abolitionist movements stand for. you criticize americans for not knowing about leftist politics but you alienate the most progressive and left americans by using the signifiers of white supremacy instead of the ones preferred by the very people you claim you want to coalition with world wide. which is part of why i say i can't explain it to you, because you're making me so fucking angry with this uninformed shit that it's making it impossible to coalition build.
inform yourself. read theory and history somewhere other than the eurocentric (any anglocentric society like america is inherently eurocentric before you say lemmy is amerocentric) dominated cesspit that is lemmy. and yes i saw your comment about how "inform yourself", "take the redpill", and "get woke" are all cringe to you, but you lack perspective and accuse the rest of us of lacking perspective, and it isn't helpful. its hurtful. and when you read theory, keep in mind the theorists most marxist-leninists read were white people investigating Black liberation struggles. and since stalin (the originator of the term marxist-leninist) died, 72 years have passed. there's new theory out there based one this entire lifetime of praxis. most of it generated by Black people seeking the answer to the question "what will it take for us to be free"
tldr: which Black community? the overarching Black community that's been pushed to the side starting 2600 years ago. the one people who look like me and sound like you refuse, as a whole, to listen to. the one that has a sense of community, oneness, and Ubuntu that is completely foreign to the eurocentric world view
wrote last edited by [email protected]the history of liberation struggles are out there and relatively easy to find if you’re willing to read up on political thinkers like Harriett Tubman, Malcom X, Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King Jr, bell hooks, Nikki Giovanni, Carter G Woodson, Rosa Parks, Daisey Bates, Fannie Lou Hamer, Audre Lorde, Clara Luper, Toni Morrison, and Bayard Rustin.
Hahaha, ok, now you're objectively trolling. You say I should read up on liberation and "pan-Africanism" by reading 14 Usans and 0 non-Usans?! In the same comment as you write "read theory and history somewhere other than the eurocentric"?!? lmao
You're trying to colonise leftist internationalism. Why would we look to the USA instead of,e.g., Vietnam?
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the history of liberation struggles are out there and relatively easy to find if you’re willing to read up on political thinkers like Harriett Tubman, Malcom X, Frederick Douglas, Martin Luther King Jr, bell hooks, Nikki Giovanni, Carter G Woodson, Rosa Parks, Daisey Bates, Fannie Lou Hamer, Audre Lorde, Clara Luper, Toni Morrison, and Bayard Rustin.
Hahaha, ok, now you're objectively trolling. You say I should read up on liberation and "pan-Africanism" by reading 14 Usans and 0 non-Usans?! In the same comment as you write "read theory and history somewhere other than the eurocentric"?!? lmao
You're trying to colonise leftist internationalism. Why would we look to the USA instead of,e.g., Vietnam?
i'm blocking you because it's patently obvious you're a troll. i just want to outline the problems with how this conversation has gone down so that in the future you can coalition build better (though based on your stance that oppressed people in an oppressive nation are not worth listening to because they live in an oppressive nation, i suspect you don't believe in coalition building, but rather the failed doctrine of vanguard leftism).
this whole conversation began with you coming into this conversation with a white supremacist definition of an oppressed people's word. myself and others asked that you re-evaluate that term and instead doubled down on your notion that your understanding of the word is intrinsically superior on account of that you are further separated from the origins of the term than anyone else. obviously the thinkers, in the context of "you don't understand Black language" i brought up were going to be people who inherited their resistance forms from their enslaved ancestors from North America. so you shifted the goal posts to that i didn't represent pan Africanism properly because all of the thinkers i mentioned were from North America.
obviously i understand that pan Africanism is defined by thinkers all across the Black diaspora and within the African continent. For a full view of pan Africanism, one would need to also ingest the history of the Congolese people, Ethiopia, Sudan, South Africa, Ethiopia, Senegal, and Somalia, all particular hotbeds for the European rape of Africa. You would also need to read up on Marcus Garvey and Black supremacy as well as critiques of this notion written by leaders in Africa about why retributive colonialism should not be the aim of liberation movements because an oppressed person anywhere represents oppressed people everywhere. an honest history of Patrice Lumumba is one of the best starting points i can think of as he worked tirelessly to decolonize the Congo, eventually leading to his assassination (probably at the hands of the CIA).
but you said it yourself. your aim is not to build bridges or to gain understandings or to shift the future narrative. only to cut leftist thinkers in America out because they are American. we ask not to lead, but just to be at the table when it comes to international solidarity. and i'll fully admit i'm an imperfect ally. i work every day to hear my trans sisters, my Black brethren, and my indigenous forebears to understand how people who look like me have hurt them and prevented their ability to thrive. i look to the Taino, Mayan, Mexican, Uiygher, Igbo, Nez Perce, Ukrainian, Cambodian, Irish, Jewish, and Cherokee stories of persistence on the margins to better understand the tactics that will help a queer jewish anarcho-communist like me pass this story on so that descendents who will inherit my story can sit in the shade of trees i will never see. i have blind spots and i know this. but you being proud of your blind spots, and the fact that you refer to Black political thought through the hegemonic lens of white supremacy both in how you understand the word "woke" and how you use the word "Black" does not make you better than me. it makes you ignorant. the only difference is i admit to my ignorance and work to expand my world view. easily my biggest knowlege gap is the precolonial history of what is now the so-called United States and Canada and the African continet. this is on purpose by our opressors and i'm in active work to remedy this.
so anyway. i guess this is all a long winded way of saying i know i don't have the full picture. that doesn't make refusing to know what "woke" means and policing that online discussions of the term should take the white supremacist meaning good
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