Range anxiety is overblown. Electric vehicle owners only use 13 percent of their battery capacity a day, on average.
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As for the route planning it’s definitely not easy in Spain.
It's getting even easier in the US with Biden's initiative to "Electrify America".
Oh wait, that's cancelled.
It's an interesting discussion, and I think all of it is valuable reading for people who might be on the fence or skeptical. And of course I'm not as familiar with Europe, but I expected you'd be farther along than Kansas when it comes to this green anything. On the other hand, our car culture in general is much larger, and highway culture in Kansas surely plays a bigger role than Spain.
It's a complicated topic in general. In my apartment building there are many families with two cars (because both parents work). They are in a perfect situation to get an EV because then can simply keep the other car for longer trips and in the last year I saw many new chargers appear in the garage. In other places people don't have a private parking spot to install a charger, have just one car and drive more. For them EV will still be a big inconvenience. The infrastructure is improving quite fast and you can definitely drive anywhere you want but it still not as convenient as gas stations.
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When I'm driving across country i want to know that my car isn't going to die.
You ignoring this reasonable concern just shuts down valid criticism.
I'm not ignoring it, I'm simply assuming most poeple are not driving across country constantly... much less without any foresight or planning
I know my small house would not fit my family from abroad if they all come to visit at the same time... I would not say such situation is preventing the adoption of condos
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Yeah, however we are worried about non-typical days, like the surprise drive for four hours out of the city. Then we are quite literally fucked.
Superchargers exist.
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Yes but there a giant but. Yes the range is only an issue on a motorway. Yes the services are getting better fast and yes you can charge while grabbing coffee, BUT:
- the coffee breaks add up so the travel time gets significantly longer. For me it's about 30%. What was a 7h drive in a ICE car turns into 10-11h drive in an EV
- the infrastructure is not as reliable. You may get a charging station every 50 km but it's not uncommon for them to be out of order. If I see a long stretch of road with just one charger I will simply not take it. If I have to rely on a single charger when going somewhere I will definitely be anxious about it
And don't even get me started on how inaccessible the charging infrastructure is. Just managing all the apps you need to access different networks is a huge pain in the ass. Planning your trips is complicated and require yet another apps. You also need extra money to access it as it's very common for the charges to block big amounts of money to let you charge (Repsol in Spain locks 70 Euro which is insane. You can stop and buy gas for 5 Euros but if you want to charge your EV you need to have 70 Euro on your card, if you don't you're fucked).
So yeah, you and me can manage it with couple of extra coffee stops and playing around with apps but I really can't imagine older people learning this and I'm not surprised a lot of people don't want to have anything to do with it.
the infrastructure is not as reliable. You may get a charging station every 50 km but it's not uncommon for them to be out of order.
I’ve never pulled up to a supercharger where all of them were out of order. And the ones that are out of order usually pop up on the dash so I know not to use them.
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It’s overblown, but this is a stupid way to point it out. For those that dont stay entirely in highly populated areas, even stops for gas require some planning ahead.
I want to go all electric, but it would currently mean a 3.5 hour trip into the mountains would become a 8 hour trip because no EV can reliably handle that much altitude gain in winter on the route I take. There are no chargers on the way, thus having to take the considerably slower route. Even in summer A Better Route Planner doesn’t think it’s worth the gamble to try the direct route.
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The Slate truck is probably your best bet if it comes out. It's the only modern vehicle that's claimed they won't have any tracking or privacy invasive modules installed, and just so happens to be a small, cheap, no-frills EV pick-up.
IIRC it wasn't going to be offered in Canada. Otherwise I'd be all over it. I like the lack of touchscreen bullshit.
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You're right, I picked one of the fastest charging EVs. Your example of the chevy bolt is however one of the slowest EVs in terms of charging.
But you're right, I probably should have chosen a more "average" car. 1 hour of charging for this trip is really the "best case", other EVs need 2+ hours (or 3+ hours for older models).
What's really nice about this website is that everyone can easily find out how much time charging takes for a given route and car. And that is really why I posted the link here.
This thread was perfect, ultimately providing a high, a low, and an average.
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the infrastructure is not as reliable. You may get a charging station every 50 km but it's not uncommon for them to be out of order.
I’ve never pulled up to a supercharger where all of them were out of order. And the ones that are out of order usually pop up on the dash so I know not to use them.
That's great. I never use a supercharger. I once tried but they were still switching them to CCS and the one I stopped at was still using the other plug.
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I'm not ignoring it, I'm simply assuming most poeple are not driving across country constantly... much less without any foresight or planning
I know my small house would not fit my family from abroad if they all come to visit at the same time... I would not say such situation is preventing the adoption of condos
People do indeed have foresight. And they are planning ahead. That's why they are not buying electric cars.
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I hope the irrational fear of battery degradation lasts long enough to buy one used next year.
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IIRC it wasn't going to be offered in Canada. Otherwise I'd be all over it. I like the lack of touchscreen bullshit.
Good damn it
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The author doesn't understand marginal utility. Not all time is equally valuable. When I am on a road trip, an extra 10-20% longer really sucks. The longer I can drive between charging, the shorter the trip, and the more time I can enjoy at my destination. Range consistently ranks as the highest concern for potential EV buyers for good reason. No matter how comprehensive the charging network, more frequent stops are annoying and time consuming.
Disclaimer: I own an EV.
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I'm not ignoring it, I'm simply assuming most poeple are not driving across country constantly... much less without any foresight or planning
I know my small house would not fit my family from abroad if they all come to visit at the same time... I would not say such situation is preventing the adoption of condos
I’m not ignoring it, I’m simply assuming most poeple are not driving across country constantly… much less without any foresight or planning
They very clearly explained that it's not "constantly." It's sometimes. Sometimes they would like to take longer trips, and on these longer trips, it makes their trips even longer and more difficult to plan.
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People worried about that have never actually had to evacuate.
I've never had to use my seatbelt. Guess I should get rid of them.
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I'm a farmer and I've been looking for an affordable EV pickup. I'm unlikely to use 100km of range in a day so I'd be perfectly happy with a small battery in it.
Be careful with range estimates. You can lose 40% of the range in the cold, for example. And another 30% at highway speeds. Plus you can't charge at exactly 0%, so you want a 10% buffer or so. Assuming you never want to drive further than 100km, you want an EV with a rated 260km of range at least. That shouldn't be difficult with modern EVs, but you'll want to avoid older EVs.
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I've considered this a bit.
I preordered the slate because I like the idea a lot. If it works well enough for most of my driving then I can rent a car for long trips and camping.
But even if I get it I think I it will be quite a while before I also get rid of my ice vehicle. The convenience of a 5 minute fuel up is just too nice.
The convenience of a 5 minute fuel up is just too nice.
Not as convenient as plugging it in when you get home. (For those with the privilege to do so). One of my favorite parts of driving electric for the last ten years has been not having to stop at the gas station.
My partner and I actually have one electric, and one plug-in hybrid. We end up putting fuel in the hybrid about once every 4-6 months on average.
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I've never owned an EV but have been casually considering what it would entail. Like would I really need level 2 charging at home? I'm sort of thinking not at this point. The commute for me or my wife would be something in the 20 km round trip range. We don't live in a big city. Errands could increase that somewhat. But if let's say the charger could add back even 5 km/hr, which I think is a pretty conservative estimate. That should be plenty to handle our needs with overnight charging on 120V.
As for intercity, well, you'd likely be using some public fast charger right? So that's kind of a moot point as far as what you need at home.
I don't know if I'm missing something though in this analysis? Like I've heard winter driving affects range fairly considerably. And that's unfortunately also the time I'd be more tempted to drive over riding the e-bike everywhere. But even so, I doubt I'd ever exhaust the battery in my home town?
I'd advise you to get the type 2 home charger anyway. Even if your expected mileage is very low.
The savings of not getting one aren't worth the hassle of having to charge slowly constantly, and being depended on that slow charge.
A proper charger will enable you to take spontaneous drives more often.
It could allow you to take advantage of cheap hourly rates (if that's an option).
It removes the dependence on public chargers.
It'll be fast enough for two cars if you eventually need that in case one of you gets a new job or you have family visiting etc.So, sure, you don't neeeeed it, but it's easier in all of those situations that are just a little outside the ordinary and optimized commuting schedule.
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It’s overblown, but this is a stupid way to point it out. For those that dont stay entirely in highly populated areas, even stops for gas require some planning ahead.
I want to go all electric, but it would currently mean a 3.5 hour trip into the mountains would become a 8 hour trip because no EV can reliably handle that much altitude gain in winter on the route I take. There are no chargers on the way, thus having to take the considerably slower route. Even in summer A Better Route Planner doesn’t think it’s worth the gamble to try the direct route.
Depending on the frequency of said trips, you would probably still end up saving a tonne of money by just borrowing a diesel 4WD for those trips into the mountains (assuming it’d only be a couple of times a year).
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The author doesn't understand marginal utility. Not all time is equally valuable. When I am on a road trip, an extra 10-20% longer really sucks. The longer I can drive between charging, the shorter the trip, and the more time I can enjoy at my destination. Range consistently ranks as the highest concern for potential EV buyers for good reason. No matter how comprehensive the charging network, more frequent stops are annoying and time consuming.
Disclaimer: I own an EV.
I actually like the forced stops. I personally never want to drive for more than 3 hours without stretching my legs, so it's pretty convenient for me that the my car's range lines up with that.
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I've never owned an EV but have been casually considering what it would entail. Like would I really need level 2 charging at home? I'm sort of thinking not at this point. The commute for me or my wife would be something in the 20 km round trip range. We don't live in a big city. Errands could increase that somewhat. But if let's say the charger could add back even 5 km/hr, which I think is a pretty conservative estimate. That should be plenty to handle our needs with overnight charging on 120V.
As for intercity, well, you'd likely be using some public fast charger right? So that's kind of a moot point as far as what you need at home.
I don't know if I'm missing something though in this analysis? Like I've heard winter driving affects range fairly considerably. And that's unfortunately also the time I'd be more tempted to drive over riding the e-bike everywhere. But even so, I doubt I'd ever exhaust the battery in my home town?
I've owned an EV for 5 years, and I still don't have a level 2 charger at home. It works for me, but it mostly depends on your daily drive.
It is less efficient than a L2 charger, so I am spending money on electricity that just disappears as heat, so I'll probably get one installed eventually.
