Murders of two female students prompt calls for a ‘cultural rebellion’ in Italy
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Using whataboutism to studiously ignore the issue at hand.
It truly is 'all men' when it comes to a discussion about femicide.
wrote 7 days ago last edited byThe hell? You're the one who was saying "it's always men," then when presented with evidence to the contrary, you scream "whataboutism"?
You're not helping your cause here, bud.
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wrote 7 days ago last edited by
It is legal for prisoners to be enslaved - perhaps you missed that little gotcha in the amendment.
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It is legal for prisoners to be enslaved - perhaps you missed that little gotcha in the amendment.
wrote 7 days ago last edited byWe weren't talking about what is legal.
I'm going to ignore you now. You people are insufferable.
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Extreme punitive measures from the police and carceral organs of the state will not solve misogynistic violence. I’m glad people are fired up about the problem but this is the wrong approach. It’s been tried 1000 times for other things and it never works.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byItaly probably has a different culture. Maybe it will work there, or they'll learn the hard way.
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That's a very hyperbolic statement, and studies suggest about a quarter of spousal murders are committed by women. Closer to 3 in 8 in America.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byWhen yo say “studies suggest” whose studies are you referring to? Are these peer reviewed studies? I find your “facts” hard to believe at face value.
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The hell? You're the one who was saying "it's always men," then when presented with evidence to the contrary, you scream "whataboutism"?
You're not helping your cause here, bud.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byNo evidence has been presented
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Thanks.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byI was hoping lemmy would be fee of these misogynistic mobs. I think these guys just proved your point. They presented no evidence or peer reviewed studies back up their made up facts. Femicide and rape culture is a huge problem worldwide. This mobbing of women online is part of the problem.
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Of course it's not all men, but there are enough men who kill women for no reason that it's a problem ... especially when the 'good' men stand around and do nothing to stop it.
If you don't want to be lumped in with all men, good for you. Then say something when men start making dumb blonde jokes, or kid around about beating women until the listen/obey.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byAre there usually good men standing around at the scene of a murder?
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I was hoping lemmy would be fee of these misogynistic mobs. I think these guys just proved your point. They presented no evidence or peer reviewed studies back up their made up facts. Femicide and rape culture is a huge problem worldwide. This mobbing of women online is part of the problem.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byI saw only one user in this thread try to respond with an unspecified “studies say”. How is that a “mob”?
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wrote 6 days ago last edited by
Wrong. Evidence was presented showing it's 1/5th of women in Italy.
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I saw only one user in this thread try to respond with an unspecified “studies say”. How is that a “mob”?
wrote 6 days ago last edited byI’ve seen men enable violence against women my entire life. Bye Felicia
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When yo say “studies suggest” whose studies are you referring to? Are these peer reviewed studies? I find your “facts” hard to believe at face value.
wrote 6 days ago last edited by3 out of 8 is a weird way to present a static. Kinda a red flag for spotting anyone trying to push a narrative. There's more than enough data on this to present information in solid percentages or when dealing with population numbers of a society in the millions to billions people in base 10 numbers. 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000... 3 out of 8?! Like what was your sample size? 8?!
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Extreme punitive measures from the police and carceral organs of the state will not solve misogynistic violence. I’m glad people are fired up about the problem but this is the wrong approach. It’s been tried 1000 times for other things and it never works.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byThis
For a country like Italy, it will also require a cultural shift. I know they love their macho style hombres but that comes with a downside. I dunno, start at schools perhaps, where you can teach children from little to big on how they should interact together?
The exact same goes for Mexico
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wrote 6 days ago last edited by
You didn’t really address my question (how is one person equal to a “mob”), and it seems like you’re using a similar type of anecdote to the one you are complaining about—no source, all personal impression. I’m not trying to be contrarian for the heck of it, I just don’t think you’re making a much better argument than the one you are speaking against.
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When yo say “studies suggest” whose studies are you referring to? Are these peer reviewed studies? I find your “facts” hard to believe at face value.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byFirst, I love how you got upvotes for saying, "I didn't bother even trying to find any evidence before posting." But that's not on you.
Second, murders are usually followed up on in the developed world, at least to some degree.
Here's a BBC article. 20% in the UK (I found other regions with higher amounts, but I'm okay with this one). Note also that we are talking about something that is incredibly unlikely. 30,000 deaths worldwide per year of women in relationships by their partners. Assuming half of adult women worldwide are in relationships and noting there are about 6 billion adults gives 1.5 billion women in relationships. Note that the country with the highest rate of singles for both sexes is at 25%, so this is pretty conservative. That is a 2 in a million chance per year. Assuming women are in relationships for 60 years because, why not, puts your risk at 120 in a million of being killed by a partner over your lifetime. That is about 1.2 in 10,000, which is about 10 times as likely as dying from general anesthetic.
So now that we've determined that 1.2 in 10,000 men are killing their partners, and I will happily acknowledge that domestic violence is much more prevalent as long as you acknowledge that depending on region, 40% of victims of spousal violence are men (279000÷(432000+279000)), why would we waste our time targeting men for awareness of spousal violence when most men aren't doing it and a significant part of the people who are doing it aren't men?
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3 out of 8 is a weird way to present a static. Kinda a red flag for spotting anyone trying to push a narrative. There's more than enough data on this to present information in solid percentages or when dealing with population numbers of a society in the millions to billions people in base 10 numbers. 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000... 3 out of 8?! Like what was your sample size? 8?!
wrote 6 days ago last edited byLittle odd of course, but not the worst way to try to illustrate more than 1/4 but not 1/2... Which seems to be in the ballpark of the number he mentioned. If 40% of spousal murders are committed by women it fair to say it's not "always men", but it is more than half but less that 3/4.
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Of course it's not all men, but there are enough men who kill women for no reason that it's a problem ... especially when the 'good' men stand around and do nothing to stop it.
If you don't want to be lumped in with all men, good for you. Then say something when men start making dumb blonde jokes, or kid around about beating women until the listen/obey.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byThat's a big leap... Dumb blonde to beating women.
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wrote 6 days ago last edited by
You were the one saying that prisons should be harsher in the first place.
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Using whataboutism to studiously ignore the issue at hand.
It truly is 'all men' when it comes to a discussion about femicide.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byJust FYI, you're arguing with someone that agrees with you.
I agree with you too, but only about your main point.
Not "all men."That assumption is the same logic as bigots and the very "men" you are trying to chastize. Let me just rephrase what you wrote to make my point:
It truly is 'all women' when it comes to a discussion about being involuntarily celibate. Using whataboutism to studiously ignore the issue at hand.
You literally are using the same arguments that incels do to justify their hatred and punishment of women.
Just changing the who and what in that argument does not make it a logically sound one.
Anecdotally, I'm a man, and one that has literally saved a woman from being arrested for assault because I recognized she was having an extreme bipolar manic episode, and not just "going crazy" like her female friends believed when they called the cops on her.
The belief our penis prevents us from acting humane is laughable bigotry.
If you want to make a scientific point, don't follow it with unscientific insults.
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But it will take the people who commit violence against women off the street. There are times when prison is not about rehabilitation its simply about removing danger.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byOnly after they do it. It doesn't prevent anything.