Murders of two female students prompt calls for a ‘cultural rebellion’ in Italy
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I was hoping lemmy would be fee of these misogynistic mobs. I think these guys just proved your point. They presented no evidence or peer reviewed studies back up their made up facts. Femicide and rape culture is a huge problem worldwide. This mobbing of women online is part of the problem.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byI saw only one user in this thread try to respond with an unspecified “studies say”. How is that a “mob”?
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wrote 6 days ago last edited by
Wrong. Evidence was presented showing it's 1/5th of women in Italy.
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I saw only one user in this thread try to respond with an unspecified “studies say”. How is that a “mob”?
wrote 6 days ago last edited byI’ve seen men enable violence against women my entire life. Bye Felicia
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When yo say “studies suggest” whose studies are you referring to? Are these peer reviewed studies? I find your “facts” hard to believe at face value.
wrote 6 days ago last edited by3 out of 8 is a weird way to present a static. Kinda a red flag for spotting anyone trying to push a narrative. There's more than enough data on this to present information in solid percentages or when dealing with population numbers of a society in the millions to billions people in base 10 numbers. 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000... 3 out of 8?! Like what was your sample size? 8?!
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Extreme punitive measures from the police and carceral organs of the state will not solve misogynistic violence. I’m glad people are fired up about the problem but this is the wrong approach. It’s been tried 1000 times for other things and it never works.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byThis
For a country like Italy, it will also require a cultural shift. I know they love their macho style hombres but that comes with a downside. I dunno, start at schools perhaps, where you can teach children from little to big on how they should interact together?
The exact same goes for Mexico
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wrote 6 days ago last edited by
You didn’t really address my question (how is one person equal to a “mob”), and it seems like you’re using a similar type of anecdote to the one you are complaining about—no source, all personal impression. I’m not trying to be contrarian for the heck of it, I just don’t think you’re making a much better argument than the one you are speaking against.
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When yo say “studies suggest” whose studies are you referring to? Are these peer reviewed studies? I find your “facts” hard to believe at face value.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byFirst, I love how you got upvotes for saying, "I didn't bother even trying to find any evidence before posting." But that's not on you.
Second, murders are usually followed up on in the developed world, at least to some degree.
Here's a BBC article. 20% in the UK (I found other regions with higher amounts, but I'm okay with this one). Note also that we are talking about something that is incredibly unlikely. 30,000 deaths worldwide per year of women in relationships by their partners. Assuming half of adult women worldwide are in relationships and noting there are about 6 billion adults gives 1.5 billion women in relationships. Note that the country with the highest rate of singles for both sexes is at 25%, so this is pretty conservative. That is a 2 in a million chance per year. Assuming women are in relationships for 60 years because, why not, puts your risk at 120 in a million of being killed by a partner over your lifetime. That is about 1.2 in 10,000, which is about 10 times as likely as dying from general anesthetic.
So now that we've determined that 1.2 in 10,000 men are killing their partners, and I will happily acknowledge that domestic violence is much more prevalent as long as you acknowledge that depending on region, 40% of victims of spousal violence are men (279000÷(432000+279000)), why would we waste our time targeting men for awareness of spousal violence when most men aren't doing it and a significant part of the people who are doing it aren't men?
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3 out of 8 is a weird way to present a static. Kinda a red flag for spotting anyone trying to push a narrative. There's more than enough data on this to present information in solid percentages or when dealing with population numbers of a society in the millions to billions people in base 10 numbers. 1:10, 1:100, 1:1000... 3 out of 8?! Like what was your sample size? 8?!
wrote 6 days ago last edited byLittle odd of course, but not the worst way to try to illustrate more than 1/4 but not 1/2... Which seems to be in the ballpark of the number he mentioned. If 40% of spousal murders are committed by women it fair to say it's not "always men", but it is more than half but less that 3/4.
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Of course it's not all men, but there are enough men who kill women for no reason that it's a problem ... especially when the 'good' men stand around and do nothing to stop it.
If you don't want to be lumped in with all men, good for you. Then say something when men start making dumb blonde jokes, or kid around about beating women until the listen/obey.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byThat's a big leap... Dumb blonde to beating women.
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wrote 6 days ago last edited by
You were the one saying that prisons should be harsher in the first place.
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Using whataboutism to studiously ignore the issue at hand.
It truly is 'all men' when it comes to a discussion about femicide.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byJust FYI, you're arguing with someone that agrees with you.
I agree with you too, but only about your main point.
Not "all men."That assumption is the same logic as bigots and the very "men" you are trying to chastize. Let me just rephrase what you wrote to make my point:
It truly is 'all women' when it comes to a discussion about being involuntarily celibate. Using whataboutism to studiously ignore the issue at hand.
You literally are using the same arguments that incels do to justify their hatred and punishment of women.
Just changing the who and what in that argument does not make it a logically sound one.
Anecdotally, I'm a man, and one that has literally saved a woman from being arrested for assault because I recognized she was having an extreme bipolar manic episode, and not just "going crazy" like her female friends believed when they called the cops on her.
The belief our penis prevents us from acting humane is laughable bigotry.
If you want to make a scientific point, don't follow it with unscientific insults.
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But it will take the people who commit violence against women off the street. There are times when prison is not about rehabilitation its simply about removing danger.
wrote 6 days ago last edited byOnly after they do it. It doesn't prevent anything.
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They're not looking to prevent violence they're looking to isolate violence.
Prison has never and will never be a deterrence
wrote 6 days ago last edited byTheir point was money is being spent. Is it not best spent on actually stopping this from happening?
We know that this isn't actually about that and prison is not either. That's not the point. The point is people are fighting for the wrong things if they actually want to help.
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This meme about prison being for "rehabilitation" needs to go the way of the dodo.
Life isn't all sunshine and rainbows, kids. Sometimes the only way to stop somebody from doing something bad is to threaten them with, gasp, a punishment.
Sad this needs to be spelled out for most of you, but it really puts into perspective the kind of person that frequents these forums.
I'm just glad most of you don't have a greater impact on the world.
wrote 6 days ago last edited bySadly for you the statistic show increasing punishment does not actually work to prevent them from committing these crimes. It can work for some crimes, but not this kind, and also only up to a certain point.
Sadly this needs to be spelt out to you, but if we're spending resources on something we should make an attempt to use it as efficiently as possible. We have studies that show the efficacy of different types and degrees of punishment, as well as rehabilitation methods. Rehabilitation can get some people (not all) to become contributing members of society, where they'll actually be a benefit instead of a cost.
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That's a very hyperbolic statement, and studies suggest about a quarter of spousal murders are committed by women. Closer to 3 in 8 in America.
wrote 5 days ago last edited byHow many of those were self-defense (from either sex)? I wouldn't mix them for this discussion.
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How many of those were self-defense (from either sex)? I wouldn't mix them for this discussion.
wrote 5 days ago last edited byYou can try as much as you like to excuse women from responsibility for killing their partners, but the fact of the matter is, women can be just as ruthless as men, just usually in different ways.
Maternal infanticide is still a thing, and a "pediatric study of mothers in the general population found that 70% of mothers with colicky infants experienced explicit aggressive thoughts toward their infants, and over a quarter (26%) of them had infanticidal thoughts during colic episodes". So, 26% of these kind and loving creatures thought of killing their own child because they cried a lot.
There is a gender disparity, and a much greater difference in expression, but if you want to deal with the root causes of violence, you will have to look beyond gender.
And no, I don't have a pile of these saved up. I'm just willing to accept that people are people, regardless of gender or a myriad of other demographics, unless a clear link is shown between the demographic and the behavior being examined. The trend towards being shitty has far greater factors than gender.
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The murders sparked protests in Messina, Rome and other Italian cities, including Bologna, on Wednesday night. Further events are planned on Thursday.
In March, Giorgia Meloni’s government approved a draft law which for the first time introduced a legal definition of femicide in criminal law, punishing it with life in prison while increasing sentences for crimes including stalking, sexual violence and “revenge porn”.
The law followed the strong public reaction to the killing of Giulia Cecchettin, a 22-year-old student who was murdered by her former boyfriend, Filippo Turetta, in November 2023. Turetta was sentenced to life in prison in December.
wrote 5 days ago last edited byI guess they can't blame this on foreigners can they?
Watch this news get buried so fast.
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The murders sparked protests in Messina, Rome and other Italian cities, including Bologna, on Wednesday night. Further events are planned on Thursday.
In March, Giorgia Meloni’s government approved a draft law which for the first time introduced a legal definition of femicide in criminal law, punishing it with life in prison while increasing sentences for crimes including stalking, sexual violence and “revenge porn”.
The law followed the strong public reaction to the killing of Giulia Cecchettin, a 22-year-old student who was murdered by her former boyfriend, Filippo Turetta, in November 2023. Turetta was sentenced to life in prison in December.
wrote 5 days ago last edited byGotta love when racists use a single instance to push their hate. Yet most Rapist and Pedo’s in Italy are White. Hmmmmmmmmm. Maybe the whites should be locked up at birth to protect people.
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wrote 5 days ago last edited by
They are literally lancating a new law, maybe read the fucking artocle?
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They are literally lancating a new law, maybe read the fucking artocle?
wrote 5 days ago last edited byI meant in the news cycle here in America. My bad for not specifying.