Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
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It's never been confirmed that they are the same person, and they both operate as if they are completely separate people. Lina goes by she/her on stream as well.
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They are not irrelevant points and hopefully I can show why.
So I went fishing through the kernel rust directory and didn’t find any drivers. It’s late and I definitely missed a lot (I didn’t even go through the drivers branch, but should rust code be there? I thought it all lived in /rust…), but the r4l page lists the nvme driver, an implementation of existing functionality in rust that is in the words of its description page “not suitable for general use”. The r4l page also has the null block driver, which is not a strictly speaking useful thing for actually doing stuff with the computer but is a great way to do a bunch of goofy crap and its page on the r4l website explains why it’s being rewritten in rust.
I just want to pause here in the comment and say that the null block driver is actually a phenomenal thing to be rewriting in rust for so many reasons.
Then there’s the android binder driver which is not something I understand enough to comment on, but is a rewrite in rust. I also saw a puzzlefs driver on the r4l page. Puzzlefs is an experimental file system written in rust to begin with so it’s no surprise the Linux driver is rust.
Last the r4l page offers two gpu drivers, the apple one that asahi uses and the nvidia nova one which seems to be in the early stages of development.
As I said, I probably missed some drivers and other rust code that needs to use —since it’s our topic of discussion— the c dma bindings through a wrapper.
But if all six of those used the dma c bindings wrapper then that’s still far short of my agreement with you that the right way would be to write a bunch of good rust shit that uses the wrapper then say “hey, if we move this wrapper into dma directly it’ll save 10k lines of code because it’s a hundred lines and used in a hundred things”.
Instead it’s used by three rewrites (the point of r4l!), an experimental file system, a in development gpu driver and the asahi mac driver.
For a third time, I’m absolutely 100% sure there’s more rust drivers than that, but enough to make the argument that you’re taking a hundred lines out of a hundred places?
When I was younger I was involved in local government. I was idealistic and thought that having been accepted at the table, the correctness of my ideas would be evident and they would be accepted and implemented quickly. Of course I was very wrong and was surrounded by competing interests vying for limited resources so the force of my argumentation had almost no effect.
What was effective was constructing scenarios that made it almost impossible for people to act in ways other than what I wanted.
I chose a narrative analogous to the common rust person complaint of “political reasons” here on purpose because ultimately instead of appealing to an authority to settle the chicken or egg problem for them (which is somehow not political, despite the authority existing within some governing structure but whatever!) rust devs should be saying “who the fuck cares, I’m headed to market with a cartload of chickens and eggs, you gonna give me a stall to sell out of or am I gonna be clogging up the thouroughfares?”
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Then this isn't being blocked?
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You really think it is okay to say “I will try project A, I need donations” and then go on a holiday with the donated money and do nothing else?
Yes. A donation is a donation, fullstop.
Would I feel good or morally okay doing such a thing? Absolutely no way. I acknowledge that internal inconsistency. If someone gives me something, I feel obligation to give back.. simple as that.
Objectively speaking though, a donation is not a contract, and to expect a donation to have future influence is a messy method of doing business that should be viewed with a pretty critical eye. If a person giving money wants an obligation, they should pursue a contract.. If they don't care what happens after they give the money but just want to show support or appreciation, that's where donations shine.
If I gave a donation to my favorite videogame dev, but then 2 hours later they stopped supporting that game, I'd still be happy I showed them support for what they had given me so far. I believe retroactively being unhappy about giving a donation shouldn't cast the receiver in a bad light, and that it's the giver that didn't understand what they were doing and what the potential outcomes were.
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I don't know if the code marcan was talking about is still going to be merged. It wasn't actually being blocked, but that doesn't mean it was approved either.
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So, not blocked, merged in, already maintaining a tree, just one maintainer isn't sold yet on the implementation.
Im just not seeing a problem then? Aside from the person experiencing burnout, which I get. But burnout may not indicate a cultural problem, either. Especially if the person is coming off of a rough year, personally.
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What code has he not merged? Was his argument technical or political?
I see lots of R4L code being merged in each of the last few releases.
I also do not see the email where Linus supported Christoph. I see the one where he chewed out Hector for “social media brigading”. That is not the same thing as supporting the maintainer. Hector is not even the one submitting the Rust code in question. He just piled on in the LKML later.
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Fair point. I do think burn out is a problem for the process in general. I guess Linux has always benefited from the long line of people looking to contribute. As long as progress is being made, I expect that to continue here.
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I doubt you care but others may want to know that you just hit the nail on the head. Just not the way you think.
All the Rust folks want is for “technically superior” solutions to be accepted on their merits. The exact problem is that some influential Linux folks have decided that “technically superior” is not the benchmark.
Take the exact case that has led to the current debate. The maintainer said explicitly that he will NEVER accept Rust. It was NOT a technical argument. It was a purely political one.
In the Ted Tso debacle. a high profile Rust contributor quite Linux with the explicit explanation that the best technical solutions were being rejected and that the C folks were only interested in political arguments instead of technical ones.
If it was true that “technically superior” solutions were being accepted, the R4L team would be busy building those instead of arguing.
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The project has said it is a goal to move to a dual language model. So, no, it is not reasonable.
What would be reasonable would be technical arguments or pragmatic logistical concerns with the goal of finding solutions. What would be reasonable would be asking for and accepting help.
None of the reasonable stuff is happening. So, it not reasonable.
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The boiled down summary is:
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Christoph rejects the patch because he doesn't want to maintain it
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Christoph says no and that he "will do everything [he] can do to stop [Rust support from being added to the DMA subsystem]"
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Linus says "How about you accept the fact that maybe the problem is you. You think you know better. But the current process works."
By saying that Hector is the problem, he's implicitly saying that Christoph is not the problem. By saying that the current process works--the very same process that just prevented R4L from submitting patches to the kernel, he's implicitly endorsing Christoph's actions.
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BLM and ACAB are very American centric movements/sentiments. Hence why I took your comments to be American focused.
Whilst I've heard the phrase "thin blue line" before, it's never been something associated with racist overtones or subjugative ones in my experience. More that the police is a small community protecting the larger population.
As such, someone using it context of not allowing the proliferation something is reasonable, if possibly histrionic in this case.
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Perhaps. That is not my read. I hear Linus saying that he trusts the process and that sticking with it is the solution to working through the problem. He does not say that a maintainer blocking a technically sound patch is a problem. He does not say that he would reject the patch. He does say that the approach taken by Hector ( who is not the one that submitted the patch ) is the wrong one. If Linus had said that the technical approach or the code quality was a problem, I would agree with you. He did not object to either of those things. What he said is that social media is not the solution.
I will know what Linus thinks when he either accepts or rejects the submission from the R4L team.
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I didn't include the social media "brigading" portion because Linus already addressed that in a different sub-thread.
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which also removes the merits of you questioning if what he is claiming is fiction or not
yet you claim marcan is lina with zero proof?
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Companies are under sanctions. Companies that are connected to the Russian government. Government that is actively wages a terrible unjust war. A war that shouldn't happen.
People who are working in those companies were banned for the duration of them working for and supporting companies that are under sanctions.
If that's a problem for you you are being obtuse either on purpose or, I hope, because you're underinformed. -
This war was forced into Russia due to the blocking and surrounding it with NATO bases clearly against it, and by trying to block and substitute its primary exports to EU.
The violent overthrow of the then democratic government in Ukraine, the arming, training, and directing a Neo-Nazi para-military unit to take over, after forcing half the political parties in being illegal, had nothing to do with Russia. If there is someone underinformed, confused, and lacking historical facts it is not me, and better change your arrogant tone if you seriously want to discuss something and not just throw propaganda mud.
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.ml
Oh, here it is. I was waiting when the pretense will go away.
15 рублей получишь в кассе. -
получ
if you have a rational argument please translate it, if you have run out respect the rest of the discussion and keep it in English
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I had zero respect for putinsuckers from the beginning, and since you just outed yourself as one, this "discussion" ended.