Resigning as Asahi Linux project lead
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You're talking about the US police. A lot of the world have police forces that serve the people.
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A thin line between chaos and order. That line is blue if it's the police.
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If Rust is going to happen, then it'll happen.
How can it happen if individual maintainers say they'll do everything in their power to keep Rust out of the kernel? There's fundamentally no way forward. The R4L devs already gave every commitment they could, but some maintainers fundamentally don't want it.
And before anyone brings it up: no, the maintainers weren't asked to touch Rust code or not break Rust code or anything else.
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I'm not just talking about the US police. I've ever been to the US, and I assure you the police is shit here too. Ts'o is American, and that "thin blue line" saying seems especially American or Anglo. I've never heard that over here. So I'm not sure how that's even relevant to the discussion.
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It's also his legitimate choice to wait. He can't see the best way forward and is deciding to wait on his decission or let the community decide instead of him. As much as we like to think of him as autocrat in some way, he respects people that work on kernel and he respects their time. The smartest move is often to wait on a decision. And even if it's not a smartest move in this case, it can still be better than making a wrong decission that will demoralize the community even more.
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Then rust isn't going to happen in every area of the kernel yet
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where [it] comes from
You imply it comes from:
The "thin blue line" symbol has been used by the "Blue Lives Matter" movement, which emerged in 2014
But you link to a Wikipedia article that says:
New York police commissioner Richard Enright used the phrase in 1922. In the 1950s, Los Angeles Police Chief Bill Parker often used the term in speeches, and he also lent the phrase to the department-produced television show The Thin Blue Line. Parker used the term "thin blue line" to further reinforce the role of the LAPD. As Parker explained, the thin blue line, representing the LAPD, was the barrier between law and order and social and civil anarchy.
The Oxford English Dictionary records its use in 1962 by The Sunday Times referring to police presence at an anti-nuclear demonstration. The phrase is also documented in a 1965 pamphlet by the Massachusetts government, referring to its state police force, and in even earlier police reports of the NYPD. By the early 1970s, the term had spread to police departments across the United States. Author and police officer Joseph Wambaugh helped to further popularize the phrase with his police novels throughout the 1970s and 1980s.
The term was used for the title of Errol Morris's 1988 documentary film The Thin Blue Line about the murder of the Dallas Police officer Robert W. Wood.
I have no idea about this guy's politics, but it's a pretty well known phrase with a lot of different contexts.
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There are already several Rust Kennel From Scratch projects that are reasonably progressed. Redox is one, Asterinas is another.
The latter is I think aiming for Linux ABI compatibility.
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I think it's important to see these types of efforts, while I'll never go out and buy a MacBook the effort isn't wasted since it gives current users more freedom and future people buying used laptops more options for Linux compatible hardware.
Without a project like this, that hardware will end up being e-waste a lot sooner than it should be, when Apple drops support. At least to me I see an ethical and moral imperative for projects like this, but I also understand people's grievances with Apple.
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we don't live in the 80s though. we live in contemporary times where things have different now meanings to what they did 40 years ago. hope that helps!
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i scrolled half a wiki page to link to... facts. keep seething.
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ah, fair enough. i guess that's kind of the thing with potential dogwhistles. if you know, you know.
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Tell me you are only familiar with stuff going on with the US and nowhere else without telling me.
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You’re the one who brought up the origin of the term, why would you do that if you’re wanting to refer to the contemporary meaning?
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Fact is Rust isn’t ready for every part of the kernel. C/Rust interop is still a growing pain for Linux and troubleshooting issues at the boundary require a developer to be good at both. It’s an uphill battle, and instead of inciting flame wars they could have fostered cooperation around the parts of the kernel that were more prepared. While their work is appreciated and they are incredibly talented, the reality is that social pressures are going to dictate development. At the end of the day software is used by people. Their expectations are not law, but they do need addressed to preserve public opinion.
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Ultimately Linus’ opinion here does not matter in the positive. He can say Rust in kernel is good, but that does not summon the skill and work to make it happen. He can say it’s bad and quash it, at the potential expense of Linux’s future. His position of avoiding an extreme is a pragmatic one. “Let them come if they may, and if they do not it was less a loss for us.”
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see, i could maybe agree with this if it weren't for the amazing work from R4L that already has been and continues to be done, despite subsystems maintainers putting their foot down and going "Not In My Back Yard, bucko!". how many more maintainers does R4L have to lose before Linus realizes he might need to take a stance as a project lead?
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"Let's wait and C".
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Which means unnecessary duplication of code, because every driver has to track kernel Interfaces separately. Why? What's the advantage?
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Wow. The entitlement… maybe learn what a donation means
