Are people in the US aware that they are now definitely a rogue state, or is this fact simply covered up by the usual patriotism?
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Based on the pro Trump people in my life, I've seen two classes:
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Those in denial and ignorant in general (don't really follow the news), who don't believe for example that Trump is deporting people without due process, and blatantly violating the law and constitution.
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Those who are so sucked into the MAGA own-the-libs circle-jerk that even when presented with the facts and proof of Trump doing something blatantly illegal, will usually retort with something like "oh so when the Democrats do it it's okay, but now the Trump is doing it it's wrong??? You fucking communist!"
Both I believe are the result of being fed far right propaganda by YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, etc. It's the only explanation I have. These aren't random people I don't know. These are people I love and have known my whole life.
It hurts to see, and I don't see a way to help them that doesn't involve ruining those relationships. I avoid talking about politics around them because I know it's going to make me resent them, and I don't want that.
I have the experience. Close friends consumed by the alt-rightosphere. These are (arguable were) caring people who'd stop and help strangers stranded on side of the road. People I considered like minded. But now it's "Democrats are pedophiles, Clinton flew with Epstein and here's how the election was stolen" (the irony is not lost on me).
Trying to discuss this constructively just doesn't work. It always ends with
"Your information is wrong and you're being brainwashed"
you can show them all of the stuff but their eyes glaze over and they're just thinking about how to find an article that either: Spins how the negative thing is actually good or just outright false. -
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For starters, understanding that American fascism is not the result of voters simply not being informed enough. The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument... then they'd see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
As we devolve deeper and deeper into fascism, it has been frustrating watching liberals flail to try and understand how the devolution is happening: is it because people are uneducated? Is it because of Joe Rogan's podcasts? Is it because of Russian spies? Is it because Trump has started a cult? Is it because lead was used in gasoline 50 years ago? Is it because we use lead water pipes? Is it because of Ronald Reagan? All of this waffling to avoid the hard questions. I.e, "is it possible that fascism is the only logical conclusion a nation which was founded solely by white landowners to do wholesale on genocide on native Americans?"
If you fail to start thinking about this devolution into fascism in terms of history, class, and material conditions, you're always going to be hopelessly confused about the structures and frameworks that allow fascism to fester.
The idea that, if all Trump supporters simply had access to better information, if they all had better education, if they were exposed to the right argument... then they'd see the light and turn into democrats - is a supremely liberal idea. We need to understand that no amount of epic slams, no amount of late night talk show roasts, no amount of facts and logic will steer us out of fascism.
Well said. And honestly, it's even counterproductive, because that assumption is a core reason why people view the establishment Left as patronizing and elitist.
It also reminds me of one of my favorite Onion videos: https://youtu.be/lpzVc7s-_e8 (I like Judith Butler, and I've even read some of Gender Trouble, but the premise and execution just gets me in stitches every time.)
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By rogue state, I mean a country that poses a threat to world peace due to its unstable and dangerous government.
As a rule, the following criteria are usually applied, almost all of which the USA now fulfills:
- Authoritarian or totalitarian government
- Severe restriction of human rights
- Promotion of terrorism
- Pursuit of weapons of mass destruction
- Unpredictable and dangerous foreign policy
Our government is only unstable in that mass fraud is being exposed.
Our government is not authoritarian or totalitarian.
We do not restrict human rights.
The side that promotes terrorism is not in power.
Can't say much about WMDs, most countries do.
Our foreign policy as it currently stands is not dangerous to others, though, there is danger in going against the globalists. I'll give you that it's unpredictable, but I think that's good, considering where predictable under Biden has gotten us.
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Are you suggesting that the algorithms for every website is pro-trump?
Algorithms mostly care about profit and user engagement.
Go check the front page of reddit and see how most political posts are about trump's/america's fuck ups.Sorry, the site that is expressly pro-Trump and has been removing comments critical of the current administration?
Beyond that, I wouldn't even necessarily describe Reddit as a major player in the U.S. Most Americans are either part of META's ecosystem or X, and both of those are absolutely pro-Trump.
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Our government is only unstable in that mass fraud is being exposed.
Our government is not authoritarian or totalitarian.
We do not restrict human rights.
The side that promotes terrorism is not in power.
Can't say much about WMDs, most countries do.
Our foreign policy as it currently stands is not dangerous to others, though, there is danger in going against the globalists. I'll give you that it's unpredictable, but I think that's good, considering where predictable under Biden has gotten us.
You can't be serious.
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Half are aware, the other half is happy about how things are going. Apparently we have hundreds of millions of racist dumbfucks here.
There are plenty of racists who aren't fascist. There are plenty or countries with racism problems that aren't fascist. There are plenty of dumbfucks who aren't fascist. There are plenty of illiterate countries that aren't fascist. Stupidity and racism predates fascism.
Youve reached the limit of the liberal ideological framework and have resorted to explaining fascism as some sort of cultural pathology. This is what happens when your idealist politics prioritizes individual psychology and moralistic explanations over historical and economic analysis.
It's frustrating seeing liberals watch the fascist devolution in real-time, and just throw up their hands saying "well i guess americans are just stupid! QED!". It conveniently absolves them for their complicity in facilitating fascism, and it spits in the face of victims of US policy, both foreign and abroad.
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The average person is not deeply aware of this stuff. All y’all don’t have any fucking clue what the average American is like.
Most people are just trying to get through the day. They want to pay their bills and make sure the kids are fed and Sally needs to get to dance class and Bobby has been having problems at school and now the boss wants to get that foundation poured tomorrow so you’re gonna have to stay late, but your wife can’t leave work early to pick up the kids so now you have to deal with that and oh, eggs cost double what they did a year ago and you haven’t gotten a real raise since 2021.
They don’t have time to spend on Lemmy, figure out how to use Linux, learn what a tariff is, or debate the difference between gender and sex, or read about what the Heritage Foudnation does. I do, but I’m not most people and the more y’all keep acting like those people aren’t like you people the more problems you’re gonna keep making for yourself.
Grow the fuck up
Bullshit. It's easier than ever to know what's going on in the world. There is absolutely no excuse for not knowing how bad things are.
Not being able to do much of anything about it due to having to deal with day to day concerns, I get. But as an excuse for being ignorant? Absolutely not. That's a deliberate choice.
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Thanks for the question lemmy.ml
Is your solution still to try and discourage people from voting? Or have we fully transitioned into, continue to blame Biden even though he hasn't been President since you all helped get Trump elected?
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There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
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Thanks for the question lemmy.ml
Is your solution still to try and discourage people from voting? Or have we fully transitioned into, continue to blame Biden even though he hasn't been President since you all helped get Trump elected?
Chuck "My job is to keep the left pro Israel" Schumer can save us.
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You can't be serious.
What human rights do we restrict?
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I have the experience. Close friends consumed by the alt-rightosphere. These are (arguable were) caring people who'd stop and help strangers stranded on side of the road. People I considered like minded. But now it's "Democrats are pedophiles, Clinton flew with Epstein and here's how the election was stolen" (the irony is not lost on me).
Trying to discuss this constructively just doesn't work. It always ends with
"Your information is wrong and you're being brainwashed" you can show them all of the stuff but their eyes glaze over and they're just thinking about how to find an article that either: Spins how the negative thing is actually good or just outright false.You are just a bit right, because you base your politics opinion on few, literally just few examples that you know for the entire population. I'm not saying youre wrong, but well, your experience might suggest right people are caring, while left is not, while one's experience might be the same but for left people. But definitely and we can see that in different surveys etc. that right people are just ignorant. They don't care what their leaders do as long as it doesn't impact them, and why is that bad? Because exactly the same way Hitler took the dictatorship. I believe both, left and right people are good, it just depends on a specific individual if hes not good, but the important thing in democracy is you have to care, no matter at which side you are, but you have to care about politics, and let the information in, not stay untouched when clearly basic humans right are being invaded.
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There was never a point in US history that it was not a rogue state. If you believe there’s a period it wasn’t, you simply do not know enough history about the time period you’re referring to.
Yup.
What we are seeing now is a critical inflection point for liberals: do they do honest introspection and start to apply real criticism to the history of the US, or do they cover their ears and claim Trumpism is an aberration for which they have no reasonable explanation.
To put it simply, liberals now have a choice between
"Damn, this is really the outcome of the american political project, huh? How did we get here?"
And
"Trumpist fascism is un-American, and I am clueless as to how it took hold, but I am going to continue to vote blue no matter who!"
If the amount of liberals on .world bizarrely harkening back to the "good old days" of the founders, Reagan, Obama, and even dubya is any indication, I suspect most of them have gone with the second option.
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We know. We hate it.
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There are plenty of racists who aren't fascist. There are plenty or countries with racism problems that aren't fascist. There are plenty of dumbfucks who aren't fascist. There are plenty of illiterate countries that aren't fascist. Stupidity and racism predates fascism.
Youve reached the limit of the liberal ideological framework and have resorted to explaining fascism as some sort of cultural pathology. This is what happens when your idealist politics prioritizes individual psychology and moralistic explanations over historical and economic analysis.
It's frustrating seeing liberals watch the fascist devolution in real-time, and just throw up their hands saying "well i guess americans are just stupid! QED!". It conveniently absolves them for their complicity in facilitating fascism, and it spits in the face of victims of US policy, both foreign and abroad.
Well I voted against the Orange fascist. Should I go hold an anti Tesla sign at a dealership? What do you expect the response should be with the next presidential election four years away?
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The average person is not deeply aware of this stuff. All y’all don’t have any fucking clue what the average American is like.
Most people are just trying to get through the day. They want to pay their bills and make sure the kids are fed and Sally needs to get to dance class and Bobby has been having problems at school and now the boss wants to get that foundation poured tomorrow so you’re gonna have to stay late, but your wife can’t leave work early to pick up the kids so now you have to deal with that and oh, eggs cost double what they did a year ago and you haven’t gotten a real raise since 2021.
They don’t have time to spend on Lemmy, figure out how to use Linux, learn what a tariff is, or debate the difference between gender and sex, or read about what the Heritage Foudnation does. I do, but I’m not most people and the more y’all keep acting like those people aren’t like you people the more problems you’re gonna keep making for yourself.
Grow the fuck up
It might be you who needs to grow up. This is a weird knee jerk reaction.
Non Americans should be able to ask a question about America without being told to "grow up".
It's not childish to wonder how much Americans understand about how fucked up their choice of leadership is. We're not psychic.
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What internet? The one algorithmically controlled by the oligarchs?
What TV? The stations that were purchased years ago by our country's oligarchs?
What conversations? When everyone around them is being fed the same misinformation, and they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy?
I would not assume the average American has any idea what is going on.
they treat anyone outside of their bubble as an enemy
There's the problem.
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Fuck off with this fucking shit. I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland. I never owned fucking slaves. I wasn’t even considered white until a few decades ago. I am so sick of this shit from you people not understanding that so many Americans are here because fascism forced us here too.
I am here because Germany went fucking nuts and bombed my homeland.
No, you're there because the people already there decided to let your family in.
Them being in a position to let you in js a crucial factor. And the reason their society got to control that is because of what they had done to other people beforehand.
No one is asking you to feel guilt and no one is blaming you. But facts are facts.
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Fuck off. You still benefit from white privilege. If it weren't for your pale skin, you most likely would've been deported or murdered before you even tried. Now you're supporting fascism here with you white victimhood story. jfc.
That person is delusional. If North America were a group of Indigenous nations it wouldn't have been a major immigration target for European refugees.
