Germany Turns to U.S. Playbook: Deportations Target Gaza War Protesters
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I have inserted the sentence again because you apparently only read the back part and had overlooked the part about the building occupation and damage to property.
Okay clearly you are not even interested whether the students were guilty.
You may be surprised, but** I** don't make the laws.And I fail to see how it makes it any better that Germany is deporting people demonstrating against genocide
Then you should read the article again. Because almost 50% of the article consists of explaining what these 4 people are accused of and are - apparently - NOT simply protesting.None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
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Demanded by whom exactly
Many people from **all **political spectrum, especially after attacks like the one just before the last general election.
The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views. The fact that a socially and financially(!) disastrous populist bullshit "solution" like deportations seeped so far into the German mainstream is at best worrying.
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protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
most antisemites in Germany are pro-Israel, people that go at AfD marches to support Zionism by all means necessary in order to bring about the rapture of Jewish people from the Holy Lands.
protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
Not necessarily, no. Organizers can publicly distance themselves from unwanted people beforehand and during speeches, as well as check people's banners and clothing, and that will generally help quite a bit.
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I don't understand, the rapture of the Jewish people by establishing a Zionist ethno state? I think it's much simpler: The original fascists were antisemites because jews were the scapegoat that could mobilise the masses due to a hatred for jews that has been cultivated for centuries in Europe. The fascist(oid) populists today use arabs/muslims (not that the average AfD supporter knows the difference) and therefore show public support with a regime that already shows little mercy for those. And yeah, true neo nazis, islamists and whoever else hate jews will show up for the protests, and if there really need to be deportations, they should be first.
Zionist ethno state
Jewish people are not an ethnicity. They are defined by religion.
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Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
Going to need another source than intercept to believe this story. They have a history of sensationalization or leaving important details out.
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Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
I can't find a single German outlet reporting on this. I didn't find anything on the lawyers pages about this (which could be coincidence), I can't find anything on Silke Buhlmann (supposedly head of crime prevention at the Migration agency), when I Google the names of the 4 deportees to be nothing turns up any relation to this story, at all.
Supposedly this started in December of 2024I didn't do a super deep dive, but something feels very suspicious here, the intercept is the only source of this story, none of the details can be confirmed except that Alexander Gorski is a immigration lawyer and that Engelhardt mazanke is the head of the Migration agency in Berlin.
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None of the protesters are accused of any particular acts of vandalism or the de-arrest at the university
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The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views. The fact that a socially and financially(!) disastrous populist bullshit "solution" like deportations seeped so far into the German mainstream is at best worrying.
The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views.
While I agree with you that especially the AfD is keen on deportations in a scale as big as possible, wouldn't you agree that a system that allows for - please excuse the technical terms - inflow must also have a mechanism of outflow? I.e. deportations in itself are a 'necessary evil'?
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The call for deportations comes from exactly one extreme side of political world views.
While I agree with you that especially the AfD is keen on deportations in a scale as big as possible, wouldn't you agree that a system that allows for - please excuse the technical terms - inflow must also have a mechanism of outflow? I.e. deportations in itself are a 'necessary evil'?
I do think we'd do well to question whether a deportation system makes sense overall. To which I am not going to be able to produce a definitive answer here. But as a society we should absolutely try to look at the negatives that deportations bring with themselves vs. e.g. prison sentences for actual offenders and better integration for everyone arriving. Instead, our political discourse has moved toward enabling mass deportations and toward making it impossible to fight deportations.
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protests are public, those people are gonna show up no matter how progressive the protest.
Not necessarily, no. Organizers can publicly distance themselves from unwanted people beforehand and during speeches, as well as check people's banners and clothing, and that will generally help quite a bit.
which banners and clothing do you want to be censored? if you mean Free Palestine and from the river to the sea, don't even bother as you'd be outing yourself as a zionist
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IIRC with EU citizens they have to argue threat to public safety. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if this thing stops at some district-level Berlin court, Berlin's courts are way saner than its administration. "Threat to public safety" can be incredibly low-bar or quite high bar, this would be a high bar case. Low bar would be stuff like "you're homeless, go back to your home country and file for welfare there".
Can't really bonk the federation for this it plainly doesn't have the authority to give orders to Berlin's immigration authorities, this is the state of Berlin doing shit, not the federal government.
Well to EU, the federal government is responsible. If they don't have authority to intervene on behalf of EU-citizens rights being violated, it in itself would be treaty violation. Member states have duty to police and administer the rights. EU doesn't care is state federal or not, the singular member state entity is responsible to EU and it is up to member state to domestically organize so that treaties are followed.
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Zionist ethno state
Jewish people are not an ethnicity. They are defined by religion.
Jews are a classic example of an ethnoreligious group, being Jewish is not solely a question of religion. E.g. many Jews in the US identify as Jewish, but do not believe in Judaism.
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who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
TBF: as the article states, under German law it is not. Whether that is a good idea can surely be debated, but it is legal.
I seem to remember that most of the actions of the Nazis once they got into power were also legal.
Maybe, just maybe, people should have a standard of right and wrong which does not delegate that definition to "legality", especially people in Germany.
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which banners and clothing do you want to be censored? if you mean Free Palestine and from the river to the sea, don't even bother as you'd be outing yourself as a zionist
Primo job jumping to conclusions. I was naming examples of actions. How organizers implement them is not something I am going to have a say in anyway.
I am saying though that interactions like this are probably unnecessary: https://files.catbox.moe/ssct8w.mp4 (If you don't understand German: The "reporter" is an Afd member who is asking a pro-Palestine protester about the historical Nazis and he responds that he likes the number "6 million".)
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Other people present at the same protest are accused of doing these things. Not these people. Scroll up to the article summary I posted
** None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.**
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Going to need another source than intercept to believe this story. They have a history of sensationalization or leaving important details out.
No they do not. The Intercept has been incredibly reliable over the past two years.
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Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
If this thread is at all representative of how left-leaning Europeans think, then... uh... y'all are fucked. The proto-fascism here can not result in anything else other than Trump/Orban clones taking power all over Europe. I'm not trying to attack you, but You the People need to do something about this before it's too late.
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Primo job jumping to conclusions. I was naming examples of actions. How organizers implement them is not something I am going to have a say in anyway.
I am saying though that interactions like this are probably unnecessary: https://files.catbox.moe/ssct8w.mp4 (If you don't understand German: The "reporter" is an Afd member who is asking a pro-Palestine protester about the historical Nazis and he responds that he likes the number "6 million".)
I can't research this particular incident if all you give out is a video without sources from local media saying whether he experienced repercussions or not.
I don't get what this is supposed to prove, that anyone can put on a keffiyeh and say Nazi shit?
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who havent been committed of any crimes is very legally dubious.
TBF: as the article states, under German law it is not. Whether that is a good idea can surely be debated, but it is legal.
It's not under EU law. Freedom of movement for EU citizens is a legally binding treaty obligation.
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I do think we'd do well to question whether a deportation system makes sense overall. To which I am not going to be able to produce a definitive answer here. But as a society we should absolutely try to look at the negatives that deportations bring with themselves vs. e.g. prison sentences for actual offenders and better integration for everyone arriving. Instead, our political discourse has moved toward enabling mass deportations and toward making it impossible to fight deportations.
I do think we’d do well to question whether a deportation system makes sense overall.
To regularly question the applied mechanisms in our society is something I'd also agree to. Also, I acknowledge the hardships deportations can impose, hence I think it is a tool that should only be used with consideration and absolutely not in the way e.g. the AfD wants to use it.
I also absolutely agree with you that we are dependent on immigration and also immensely benefit from it. But I also think that in order for something like our immigration system to retain the trust of the people and to function properly, it must have the possibility to be a 'breathing' system instead of a one way-only. That means also having the tool to have people leave again. Trying to abolish the rights to hospitality for a host entirely will only see the people flock to those parties that seek to detonate the migration system as a whole.
And I guess we both agree that this would be the worst outcome of all.
