What do people use for a shelf-stable backup
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That sounds like a really good idea. You basically get the best of everything.
The cool thing about ZFS is the pool information is stored on the disks themselves. You can just plug them in and import the pools.
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Basically, I specifically want cold storage, and not cloud. I will only add, not delete from it. And I don't want it encrypted.
I have a client with a photographic studio. To give you an estimate, his data is around 14TB of mostly camera pictures with approximately 20 years or history and the owner believe it or not, relies on multiple external hard drives for cold storage, he has a 2TB Seagate thats like 2011-2012 old which still works.
To put in a cupboard tho, M disc is your best bet.
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Do not use an SSD for cold storage - it will fail. SSDs need to be plugged in every once to refresh the charge in their NAND, otherwise they'll lose the data.
This is not a theoretical thing - I've had a good Samsung 850 Pro drive fail while being off for 2 years.
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Yeah it's an interesting thought. They seem to come up to 100GB capacity, but the wikipedia page claims (with a [dubious] qualifier) that you need some sort of special higher power burning device to write to M-Disc.
I don't have an optical drive at the moment. Would I just pick any rated for BDXL?
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Everyone is saying to avoid flash memory. It doesn't store well.
Another suggestion given is M-Disc, which might be a better option because then anyone should be able to throw it in a CD drive and load it without having to worry about the format of the drive and things like that. And even if CDs are not that common anymore, I think people will still know what they are and be able to find a way to load it even in 50 years. Like if someone found a cassette tape today (I know they were common much less than 50 years ago, but it's hard to find an example since records came back into fashion). Plus M-Discs are designed for long term storage, so I could worry less about bitrot and files getting corrupt etc. They are write once so I'm not going to write over existing content.
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You need a designated M Disc capable burner,yes.
There are a few on the market though - they cost around 100-150 bucks usually.(In theory you can use a regular writer sometimes - I know people who do that,but why risk that?)
I usually recommend the verbatim to my clients,they are dirt cheap and work flawlessly so far.For reading the discs any regular data-capabale blue ray disk drive will do.
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Hard drives loose their data fast if not powered (within a few years),so do SSD based media. Furthermore the former are very suspectable to mechanical destruction, electromagnetic interference,etc.
And even if for some reason your drives last that long there will be nothing to connect them to - you know how we connected hard drives 25 years ago? Via SCSI/IDE.
Good luck finding a converter to these now. If you go back further you need ISA controllers for the drives.This is a really bad idea. Really really bad, especially with the goal you want to achieve.
Your data will be gone within 5 to 10 years. -
The idea is that I'd swap out drives every 5 years or so. If USB A is no longer in use I'd swap out at that point for something newer. Plus the drives would be powered on every year for the update, it's just the point that I stop doing it (too old/hit by bus/etc) that the clock would start ticking.
I do like the M-Disc idea though. Probably a similar price, and more in line with the shelf-stable solution I was looking for.
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This is actually terrible advice.
WORM media exists for a reason and telling someone with a mere 3-2-1 he will never loose data is absolutely irresponsible.Neither is it a good idea to use regular hard-disk for offsite-cold storage. A really really bad idea.
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Like this? https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/DVWVER4618789/Verbatim-43888-External-Slim-Bluray-Writer-Ultra-H
That's NZD by the way, conversion rates are terrible at the moment so about halve it for USD, seems in the price range you said.
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You need a designated M Disc capable burner,yes. (Not generic BDXL,there are slight differences)
There are a few on the market though - they cost around 100-150 bucks usually.(In theory you can use a regular writer sometimes - I know people who do that,but why risk that?)
I usually recommend the verbatim to my clients,they are dirt cheap and work flawlessly so far.For reading the discs any regular data-capabale blue ray disk drive will do.
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Yeah, flash memory doesn't store well, hence the recommendation to keep checking on it. This article claims 10 years, but I think checking on it every year or two is a good idea.
And yeah, M-Disk looks like a good option, especially if you never need to read from it. I would make multiple copies though, because disks break, get lost, etc. And get an extra drive so your successors don't need to go find one; people are lazy and you want as few obstacles to them using it as possible.
I personally don't like using optical media because players can be finicky and storage can be annoying. But it's probably a good solution for your stated needs.
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Seems the only M-Disc capable writer I can find locally is a portable USB-C connecting one, so if I go with it I'll probably just store it with the discs. In theory M-Disc is supposed to be resistant to the kinds of things that destroy regular CDs, but making a second copy does sound like a good idea. I could even store them somewhere else (another house) to protect against fire. I have cloud backup but you never know what's going to happen over 50 years. Or if I die in the fire and no one knows I have the cloud backup.
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If you follow proper 3-2-1 you are living the four nine’s dude. A “regular” spinning HDD can last a decade or more without fuss (define “regular” please…?)
You will not lose all 3 backups at once. When one goes down, you replace it. There’s a reason this is industry standard for media production and begins. “Irresponsible”? Please.
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There are still problems with the hard drive solutions:
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Powering up the drives for a short period does not help with error correction when sectors get compromised
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As said before it is relatively risky as mechanical parts of HDs do not like to be moved only occasionally. While this problem has become less severe over the last years it still exists.
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The updating will include copying from one drive to another - this process is highly suspectable to errors that might be correct with the right file systems - but it's not a guarantee.
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And the main problem: You want to achieve a long shelf life - which means you must consider periods of time when you might not be able to maintain the data. What happens when you are not able to do so? And your next of kin are not quite ready to go through your things? To give you an example: You copy your data on the HDs today, maintain the disk's for four years and want to change disk's in 5, which means in 2030. Sadly a weeks before you are able to do so, John,your neighbourhood's stupid school bus driver hits you and you suffer a major traumatic brain injury. Even worse,you don't die right away but suffer for another 5 years in a nursing home before a infection gets you. Your family meanwhile is not quite ready to get through your things as you are still alive, aren't you? (For real,this is the case a lot) After your funeral it takes them another year to finally get through all your things.
Now your drives haven't been used for 7 years.
Even worse,one of them slips through your next of kind hand and hits the ground hard.
How big do you think the chances are the data is still available?
I think we both know the answer.
While M-Disks are also suspectable to damage there are hardened multi-disk cases that make them pretty much indestructible - nothing any HD case can ever achieve.
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3-2-1 is the minimal consensus and not recommended anymore for everything you need to reliably have access to after a long time - the fact that some ransomware viruses intentionally have a very time they are laying low to decrypt old and rarely used files is one of the main reasons.
Healthcare, finance, taxation, accounting, etc. are all sectors that heavily rely on WORM media and long term tape storage.You are right that a spinning disk often can work for 10 years - but there is a reason they are exchange earlier in a professional setting. Not all of them will.
And you were talking about cold storage disks. This is something even the manufacturers do not recommend - for a reason. -
Ah, a Kiwi. Say hello to your sheep's from me.
(Sorry,former WA resident here, couldn't resist)But yeah, we are using exactly that model - and it's currently only 20 NZD less from what I pay wholesale in Europe for it. So it seems like a pretty decent price.
The drive itself is solid. We currently have around 10, maybe 15, at our clients and it works without any hassle.
I personally recommend to store the disk's offsite(I store them in a locked box in a bank vault) and some of my clients choose to store another drive there to be extra safe,but I personally don't see the point.
