Three years later, the Steam Deck has dominated handheld PC gaming
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I'm comparing unit sales. The Deck just happens to slot in between older handhelds in terms of unit sales. It also sold about as much as the Saturn and a little more than the Dreamcast, as far as I can tell. I may be ahead of both and on par with the Wii U now, but Steam isn't super transparent with giving sales numbers.
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I get that but saying it’s sold less than the game gear implies a pretty serious failure lol I just don’t think they’re even in the same product lineup and the comparison doesn’t make a lot of sense.
I’ll admit I’m being a little nitpicky I’m not trying to start a fight with you here or something
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Maybe handheld gaming PCs aren't something that has mass market appeal? It feels like theres so many variables that depend on it. Exclusives? Price? Ease of use? Brand recognition? Advertising? Im glad Valve is happy with deck's sales numbers becuase it means we will probably keep seeing more support for it and newer models down the line. It still feels like if Microsoft launched a handheld xbox, it would probably still be a console first experience without traditional PC functionality and probably sell more while directly competing with switch 2.
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No, I get it, no animosity here. I'm just curious about why you think the bar is fundamentally different for the Deck than for consoles in general.
Hell, adjusted for inflation the Game Gear retailed for the equivalent of 300 bucks at launch, which is not far off from the lowest price for the Deck at 399. Plus 90s devices sold a lot less than modern devices. Why would meeting the Game Gear not be a reasonable target for the Deck?
It's the most successful individual PC handheld, but it's also not made it into the same range as most consoles so it hasn't turned this product category into a mainstream device... yet.
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Memory and thumbs, two conversations that you need to have with a doctor lol. You can literally just look at Steam Controller reviews and reception, these webpages all still exist on the internet... Basically the only thing that it is dinged on in reviews is the plastic build quality (totally valid, the plastic does feel cheap), lack of compatibility with Mac, and need for input mapping. The worst that I have ever seen said about the trackpads on it is "it takes getting used to" for games that are controller-first, while for non-controller games they are completely intuitive and just work.
Neither I, nor Valve, have ever pushed the trackpads as a stick replacement, and I will just keep reiterating my point that they are indispensable for use with non-controller games and without them, the product is lacking to the point of being unusable for these types of games.
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Oh, my Gabe.
Okay, here. PC Gamer review:
I have no doubt that some diehard PC gamers will put in tons of time customizing Steam Controller profiles, practicing, and becoming much more accurate than they ever would be with gamepad aiming. But the best you’re ever going to get is almost as good as a mouse, and I think games designed for an Xbox or PlayStation pad will still play better with the native hardware. Spending hours trying out the Steam Controller in the living room, I realized that don’t see much reason to make that compromise. There are very few PC games without controller support that I really want to play on my TV. When I tried, I mostly ended up just missing my mouse.
Hilariously the guy got much more negative (honest?) about it over time.
IGN, on the trackpad on its review:
It works great for typing in Steam Big Picture mode or in SteamOS, but it ultimately fails at replicating the speed and precision of a mouse for gaming. Traditional controllers use a thumbstick to let users look around in games, but with the Steam Controller, you’re forced to use the right touchpad to look around and aim. I tried tweaking the sensitivity of the pads for various games but I could find any setting that felt natural. I constantly overshot my targets and relied on the right thumbstick for accuracy instead.
As touched on already, it's difficult for the dual-trackpads to replace the trusty thumbstick, especially when it comes to aiming in first-person shooters, or even moving the camera around. I believe it's certainly possible to get the hang of it and while everything appears to be accurate enough, it simply doesn't feel as responsive as the thumbstick, or rather you don't feel quite in control for quick snappy movements.
Valve being reported as saying trackpads are the superior option at The Escapist
while also admitting they couldn't get people to use them:The machinist said that the new prototype’s analog stick was tied to movement, in order to “ease new players in” to using the two trackpads, by starting them off using just one for aiming. While he said that the prototype had been successful, and that players were eventually able to transition to the dual trackpad layout, its big disadvantage that the controller’s d-pad had to be cut to make room for the stick.
I was there. I bought one. Why do you make me do homework?
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games designed for an Xbox or PlayStation pad will still play better with the native hardware
it’s difficult for the dual-trackpads to replace the trusty thumbstick, especially when it comes to aiming in first-person shooters
you literally just cherry-picked the same "stick replacement" talking point that I've already identified as a strawman and irrelevant to this discussion
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Personally, I think the Deck is too big for my tastes, but the beauty of the ecosystem is that anyone can make one while still having almost all the Deck features.
I'd love to have a Vita or even PSP sized Steam handheld with a great screen for smaller titles, but that comes with its own problems
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Valve said it. It's not a straw man. I'm not cherry picking. Those are direct quotes from contemporary reviewers going off Valve's marketing and review guides. The first that I could find, too, there's only so much homework I'm willing to do.
The damn thing went to market with that as a USP. They told everybody the pads were superior before they had to backtrack on it and add a single stick because they couldn't get playtesters to go along with it.
If you think you know better than Valve and they mismarketed the thing... well, great. Good for you. But they still mismarketed the thing, people still reviewed it as a stick replacement and it still reviewed poorly on that front.
Now, I'd argue it was also poor at being a mouse replacement, which is also something mentioned in contemporary reviews. It may technically enable you to play a strategy game, but you're not going to excel at Dota 2 on a Steam Controller. There are multiple superior alternatives. Most obviously to just... you know, go to a desk and play with a mouse, but there are also multiple solutions to have a laptop mouse and keyboard combo. There was that Roccat solution and there are a number of variants on "here's a flat surface with a USB hub inside it" you can use for that, if you must.
So if it's not a great standard controller replacement and it's not a great mouse replacement, what is it for? It never solved the issue of playing mouse and keyboard games on the couch effectively, which by your own account was the entire idea (even though it wasn't). The solution to that ended up being developers adding mouse and keyboard options instead. And maybe gyro aiming.
In any case, we at least got Steam Input out of it, which never did much to fix the shortcomings of the Steam Controller, but is a solid tool to enhance controller support for other devices and it picks up the slack from Sony refusing to properly support their controllers on PC.
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Arguing against a point that actually isn't the argument the other person is making is the definition of strawman. I am not arguing that the touchpads are good for replacing sticks. Making the point that touchpads are bad at replacing sticks over and over again is a textbook example of a strawman. I agree with you on it, it is irrelevant, it doesn't score you any points against what I am actually saying.
So if it’s not a great standard controller replacement and it’s not a great mouse replacement
Correct, yes, we all agree here.
what is it for?
Playing non-controller games from the couch or in a handheld form factor. Lmfao
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No, friend, the argument you're making is that Valve didn't sell it based on its ability to replace sticks or mice, which is what is incorrect.
Also, there are no points. This is a conversation, not basketball.
Explain to me how we can simultaneoulsy agree that it's not a great mouse replacement and you can still claim that it's a good solution to play non-controller games.
What non-controller games are these that don't rely on a mouse? Have we been arguing about your Donkey Konga or Typing of the Dead controller all along?
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Its not a great mouse replacement
This means that I'm not going to sit down at my desk to play games on my desktop and choose to pick up a Steam Controller instead of just using the mouse that is right there. That does not mean that the touchpads aren't still good for using with mouse-based games, which they are, it just means that they it isn't better than a mouse.
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I don't think anyone has ever expected or suggested that analog stick would not be included or do not belong on the Steam Deck, including Valve. The idea that Valve is against analog stick or attempted to not include them in the first place is ludicrous and the points you make about this are completely moot lol.
I mean, it's easier homework if I only have to scroll up. You said what you said. Valve said what they said.
The weird part is we've ended up in the same place as the original Steam Controller. From being the "everything controller" that will support all types of games on a TV to being... well, not the right controller for games with controller support and clearly not as good as a mouse and keyboard for everything else, but hey, you could play stuff this way if you really wanted to.
Which is obviously not a great value proposition. "Hey, here's a slightly worse way to play a few of your games on a TV instead of at your desk" was never going to revolutionize gaming.
Oh, and by the way, I let this pass earlier because we weren't focusing on it, but for the Steam Deck specifically, the idea that the touchpads are "irreplaceable" and completely change the game when compared to other devices is also kind of confusing because...
... well, there's a touchscreen right there.
Not all games play well with touch inputs, but when you pile that on top of everything else the slice of games where the touchpads are an irreplaceable, indispensable requirement is vanishingly small.
I don't have a problem with people liking weird or inconvenient controls, mind you. It's just that I really would have prefered a version of the Deck that didn't need the Dumbo ears for the sake of keeping that weird vestigial remnant of the Steam Machines era.
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At some point you're going to struggle to put a capable x86 machine in a device that small.
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I don’t think anyone has ever expected or suggested that analog stick would not be included or do not belong on the Steam Deck, including Valve. The idea that Valve is against analog stick or attempted to not include them in the first place is ludicrous and the points you make about this are completely moot lol.
What point are you making by quoting this...? Like... I stand by the quote. Yup, its not a stick replacement. Yup, the sticks have always belonged on the Steam Deck and it was never intended to be touchpad-only.
“Hey, here’s a slightly worse way to play a few of your games on a TV instead of at your desk”
Compared to... what is the better way, exactly? It's actually: "Hey, here's a way to play a few of your games on a TV instead of at your desk that you couldn't have done before with a controller". Or is your answer "Just play those games on a desktop with a mouse! Stop having fun!" lmfao
… well, there’s a touchscreen right there.
Do you have three hands...? I'm not sure how this is relevant, how are you holding the controller while operating the triggers and buttons and using the touchscreen at the same time? Using your nose to touch the screen? I think maybe you "let that one pass" for a reason
(it doesn't make any sense and isn't relevant to the discussion) -
Alright, so more homework:
Neither I, nor Valve, have ever pushed the touchpads as a stick replacement, and I will just keep reiterating my point that they are indispensable for use with non-controller games and without them,
Valve DID say they were a stick replacement. Maybe we can keep going until we catch up with ourselves.
I'm confused about why playing on your desk is "not fun", but I assume that was a joke? Besides that I've also mentioned multiple ways to use a mouse and keyboard on a TV, which I do routinely and it's just fine with next to no compromises. Plus the touchscreen on a Deck, motion controls and other stuff.
For the record, the touchscreen doesn't need a third hand at all. Plenty of games are perfectly playable touch-only and for anything with partial touch support it's barely an inconvenience to tap something on the screen and go back to the controllers. Maybe at this point you should tell me what mystery game absolutely requires a dual touchpad setup but doesn't require the responsiveness of precision of a mouse, thus making it indispensible to have your handheld device be the width of a tabloid or your controller have no right stick.
Because, honestly, I'm drawing a blank here. The proportion of games that don't support controllers, can't be navigated with a single touchpad and a touchscreen but would not require a full mouse setup is very small, in my book. And, frankly, for whatever those are the real answer is to... you know, play something else? Not every game needs to be played on every device. I wouldn't play some games on a Deck not because they lack controller features but simply because they're not the best fit for the device and I have thousands of other games I could play instead that feel at home on a handheld.
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The proportion of games that don’t support controllers, can’t be navigated with a single touchpad and a touchscreen but would not require a full mouse setup is very small
Hmm, gee, let me think... perhaps any game that is mouse-based where you need to be able to both click and right click while moving the mouse at the same time? Lmfao
play something else?
Lmaoo yep, that's what I thought.
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Show me your deck
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You didn't mention any games. What games are those.
Do I point the mouse without clicking in Monster Train or Slay the Spire? Yes. But also, those games have touch and controller support, so I can do the same in other ways. What game would I play on a handheld that requires that but doesn't have any other way to do the same? That's not rhetorical, I'm drawing a blank here.
Where do you need to jump or press buttons on a controller while controlling the mouse? What is that? What game has controller support but also requires a pointer? I mean, Abuse, but that was in 1996, so maybe not that? Most games that use mouse aiming when playing on a keyboard map that to the right stick, off the top of my head.
Surely there's a list of games you played this way with a Steam Controller or on Deck touchpads that wouldn't play well elsewhere. They must have names. Right?
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Deck pics
