Bad UX is keeping the majority of people away from Lemmy
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Pull requests are more than welcome to improve the site. Its basic Typescript, TailwindCSS and Inferno.
https://github.com/LemmyNet/joinlemmy-site
You can also make changes to the documentation, its markdown just like Lemmy itself. So if you would write something differently then open a pull request and change it!
Thanks for reminding.
I'm more busy on [email protected] at the moment but I might give it a go at some point.
Just seems strange to have so many people wanting to fix this in this thread without actually acting
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Yea but imo that's part of the problem. I use sync because it makes it easy, but I've tried to figure out how to access lemmy on desktop and it's non-trivial (I still haven't bothered to figure it out, I've given up multiple times)
Copy past that into your browser, then log in with your username and password?
I'm not very tech savvy compared to a lot of Lemmings but I'm definitely above average. So I'm not trying to throw shade, just trying to help. The more people who get the hang of things is the more people who can teach others how to do it.
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When I say decentralization I refer to the fact that it is federated. Not sure what you mean.
sorry I totally misread that as defederated lol
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This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
I use Boost for Lemmy. The transition from Reddit was easy for me, and I know little about the fediverse other than the most basic outlines.
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They don't really need to know about that until they have had time on Lemmy to hear about what those defederated instances actually do
It will definitely impact their experience though, doesn't matter if they know or not imo
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This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
- Stop making blanket claims about instances you like or dislike, no matter how fair you feel they may be, and don't fall for the bait of others doing it. This is just drama and is exhausting to read about.
- Instead of suggesting people "join Lemmy", say things like "Join Lemmy at programming.dev" (or whatever instance you yourself are using). Sure, "but picking a server is hard" will always probably be a complaint, but leading with the one you personally use is the best way around it. If you're on a hobby focused instance (like I am) then maybe suggest a generic instance to people outside of your hobby. Don't be afraid to suggest lemmy.world. It's better to suggest the biggest instance than endlessly debate about which one is the best to suggest.
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I read a really good article recently about how people from different generations process information differently and so their UI preferences are wildly different.
The gist of it was
- A Boomer walks into a bookstore to buy a book. They feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of books. They choose one by an author they know, that their friends said was good.
- A Gen Xer or a Millennial walks into a bookstore to buy a book. The check the various authors they like, check that the cover art is appealing and read the backs of the different books, figuring out which one they want to read, then they buy that one.
- A Zoomer walks into a bookstore to buy a book. They feel overwhelmed by the sheer amount of books, and feel bombarded by the ads for books. They check the authors the influencers they subscribe to on Youtube and Tik Tok say are good. They grab one of those based on the color of the cover, ignore the back and the cover art, flip it open to a random page, read that page and if what they read grabs their their attention they buy that book, but if it doesn't, they move on.
As a result, each of these people will prefer to interact with vastly different UX.
Of course these aren't hard and fast rules, set in stone and there are tons of exceptions, but it's a definite trend.
I like how the GenX and millennial is the only example that isn't overwhelmed at first. I think it's definitely worth considering that those particular generations have a significantly greater ability and openness to learning new paradigms and adapting to new UXs, because that was something that was unavoidable for all of our formative years.
Due to the rapid pace of technological advancement from 1980-2010, it was simply necessary to adapt to brand new systems and interfaces every few years. And the rewards for doing so were enormous, so we naturally learned that if you took the time to figure out these new technologies and interfaces, you would be rewarded with much greater capabilities. For previous and subsequent generations, that process probably didn't shape their way of interacting with technology as much, so they're reluctant to put in a significant amount of effort in learning to use new technology.
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Thanks for reminding.
I'm more busy on [email protected] at the moment but I might give it a go at some point.
Just seems strange to have so many people wanting to fix this in this thread without actually acting
Exactly it seems most people here still didn't realize that this is an open source project run by volunteers, not a corporation with countless employees and a profit motive. If people want something to get done then it's best they start doing it themselves.
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The only real federation dramas I can think of were relating to Hexbear and Beehaw. If Greenleaf was on one of those instances then maybe it could explain their skewed perspective. Otherwise yeah, I don't get it.
Those went on and on and on and on for years though - it was only 3 months ago that Discuss.Online finally defederated from Lemmy.ml, making it the first top ranked instance that would be suitable to recommend to Redditors. And even then lemmy.ml still remains to bully and abuse the potential users with tankie BS (bOtH sIdEs SaMe don't ya'know).
Also before those two started there was Lemmygrad and Exploding Heads, and others I cannot recall off the top of my head but they really do go back a ways - defederation fights is kinda Lemmy's whole main entire deal. Sadly, I am not kidding: it's a Nazi bar effect where you can't convince people to join a bar that welcomes Alt-Right Nazis (although in this case it's Alt-Left tankies), bc they are turned off by such.
It's fine if we ignore what those users want btw, it's just less so if we don't acknowledge who we really are, and then wonder why nobody likes us - that kind of incel culture is not okay, at least not with me, and I will stand by that.
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This is how I ended up on a German server. I don’t speak German but really isn’t an issue. Just pick one.
Hey at least you'll never run out of ich_iel!
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This reddit post likely has tens if not hundreds of thousands of views, look at the top comment.
Lemmy is losing so many potential new users because the UX sucks for the vast majority of people.
What can we do?
Maybe better TLDR of how it works will help people realise it doesn't matter too much which instance they pick
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I suggested it to a few ppl and even offered to show them how to use it but they said it's "too hard to understand" sad times we live in.
I don't really buy it tbh. People nowadays take pride in using stuff without understanding it. From Cookie Clicker, to even something as dangerous as car driving. In theory, they should be salivating at the Fediverse.
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Picking a starter is easy. Everyone knows that pokémon is a game about collecting creatures, and everyone knows what fire/ water/ grass is, so no one's gonna be stumped. Not everyone is gonna immediately know what an instance is, or what it does, or what it's there for
At least a blåhaj is kind of like a pokémon.
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You indeed made the good choice, Lemmy.cafe is the one
Yeah, it only took me 4 tries and I still am ready to jump ship if needed.
Why not use both Lemmy and another platform?
Already am, but at least on Reddit the mods can pretend to ban/control the propaganda accounts, but over here they are the only ones posting content (for my country) and that's tiring... the rest of the content is the same here and Reddit, so I feel more inclined to stay on Reddit since I don't really post anything anyway (I don't even comment over there anymore) and Lemmy feels like something I rather delete more and more... been thinking about PieFed, but the same problem as everything Fediverse, I have to pick a goddamn instance and I don't have energy for that for now.
If it helps, the issue is much less prominent for PieFed. Pick https://piefed.social/ bc it is the flagship and new features will just magically appear every week or so (not joking! the pace of development really is that fast!) Also it's easier to not have to start the community joining process for every community - that one being (by far) the largest for PieFed means that more often than any other instance, that work will have been done for you.
Also, when you join, you will become energized about the Fediverse again - the startup wizard helping you pick communities to subscribe to based off of your interests will make you happy:-). Whether it's worth the pain of learning a whole new system after that or not... is up to you, but seriously if you need that jolt of positivity, sign up TODAY! (you can always abandon it tomorrow, though I hope you won't, and am betting that actively seeing it in front of you may help... although tbf there is a bit of a learning curve as you adjust, and yet only bc there's so much MORE you can do with PieFed, like Lemmy has just Subscribed vs. All, whereas PieFed has a whole slew of new options to add to that, in the Topics, in choosing to receive Notifications for content rather than have to navigate to it, and new stuff is coming like personalized multi-communitied as well - it kinda really is awesome and exciting!?
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If that was a legitimate issue, MMO’s (which also often have servers the player needs to choose) wouldn’t have the userbase they do. Nor would Email have taken off.
But in an MMO, you still get the same content no matter what server you choose. Over here, it directly impacts what content you can interact with based on (de)federation.
PvP v. PvE seems like it would make s difference, probably?
But yeah I get you: the list of varied options is too large, and worse yet opaque.
Fwiw Blaze most often just recommends 2-3 options to current Redditors, to KISS (Keep It SimpleS:-).
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One didn't allow down votes. Seemed like a good idea. I rarely down vote. But in practice, when I do it's for a reason. And I want the option.
Another went down for roughly a week. So that didn't work out.
Which is one reason I embraced Communick; a paid instance. Been here since.
Communick is a nice option. I have an account there too. Unfortunately many Lemmings are weirdly hostile to it being a paid service, so it hasn't gotten much traction.
I think having more small business type Lemmy servers would be a decent solution to the onboarding difficulties people are discussing in this thread. There's definitely a chunk of users who just need the security of having someone to contact if they are confused about something or something isn't working. And if they're paying for it then the provider has an incentive to give them customer support.
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Copy past that into your browser, then log in with your username and password?
I'm not very tech savvy compared to a lot of Lemmings but I'm definitely above average. So I'm not trying to throw shade, just trying to help. The more people who get the hang of things is the more people who can teach others how to do it.
There reportedly are some slowness issues for people in the USA, where most Redditors would be coming from? Perhaps the updates currently in progress and still planned will help.
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If they find Lemmy "too hard to understand", do we really want them here?
I do. Anything is better than the sites they are on currently. More different opinions can help a place grow.
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I think a big problem is a lot of the explainers for new users, at least the ones that were around back when I first joined Mastodon, were or are absolute dog shit. They were all existential explanations rather than practical ones. I was trying to figure out which instance to join, and why one might be better for me than another, and every explainer I saw was basically a variation on, "iT's JuSt LikE EmAiL. wHy Is tHaT hArD? sToP bEiNg So sTuPid, DuMmY." None of them really explained the user experience, and how different instances might affect it, let alone the existence of the local and global feeds and how your instance choice affects those. It was like asking someone how to use chopsticks and them telling you, "It's easy. Just put food in your mouth with them. Works just like a fork."
Technically true, but it omits some pretty crucial information.
Once you're into it and have the lay of the land, it seems really simple in retrospect. But if you're coming in cold with no idea how any of it works, and the only help you get is some dickhead shouting, "EmAiL! iT's LiKe EmAiL!" then the learning curve seems a lot steeper than it actually is.
True but they've improved dramatically - especially what Blaze is telling people now in r/RedditAlternatives. (it's sth like 5 sentences now, only what they need to know - see it live here)
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If it helps, the issue is much less prominent for PieFed. Pick https://piefed.social/ bc it is the flagship and new features will just magically appear every week or so (not joking! the pace of development really is that fast!) Also it's easier to not have to start the community joining process for every community - that one being (by far) the largest for PieFed means that more often than any other instance, that work will have been done for you.
Also, when you join, you will become energized about the Fediverse again - the startup wizard helping you pick communities to subscribe to based off of your interests will make you happy:-). Whether it's worth the pain of learning a whole new system after that or not... is up to you, but seriously if you need that jolt of positivity, sign up TODAY! (you can always abandon it tomorrow, though I hope you won't, and am betting that actively seeing it in front of you may help... although tbf there is a bit of a learning curve as you adjust, and yet only bc there's so much MORE you can do with PieFed, like Lemmy has just Subscribed vs. All, whereas PieFed has a whole slew of new options to add to that, in the Topics, in choosing to receive Notifications for content rather than have to navigate to it, and new stuff is coming like personalized multi-communitied as well - it kinda really is awesome and exciting!?
)I really really doubt the part about the content based on my interests part, I've tried Lemmy, Mastodon and Pixelfed, none of the has any content that I care about enough to join a community but they have way too much US politics (WAY TOO MUCH), so it really doesn't encourages me to try anything new on the fediverse (like Loops, picking an instance, creating user just to find no content for me?).
I'd like to know how good or bad the instance block works on PieFed, because here on lemmy I still see hexbear posts that other users crosspost, even when my instance already defederated that instance.
