AfD is the most popular party in Germany for the first time, with a record 26%
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The problem is that more simple minded people who are actually conservative, as they want to conserve society as it is, will easily fall for the propaganda and vote for a party that is out to destroy what they want to conserve.
The self proclaimed standing of a party is part of its propaganda. Unfortunately the media are complicit with the parties on perpetuating their propaganda, by calling parties by their chosen adjectives, rather than by what would be more fitting. Conservatives should rather be called "Destructives", and in many countries, "Social Democrats" are rather Neoliberals, for they have long sold out social democracy to the highest bidder and now follow an extremist free market ideology, their only remaining difference to the "Conservatives" being not wanting to return to societal norms from 60 years ago.
Populist intentionally choose words that attract potential voters, they will continue to do that. But calling them out for not being real conservatives because they act different is definitely helpful.
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Short version is they cannot govern without a coalition partner, but they gain other rights in the parliament, such as filling important positions in the administration. When they reach 1/3 of the votes, so 33% they have a Sperrminorität, which means they can't prevent changes in the constitution and also hinder new judges in the constitutional court.
Also 25% in an election would allow installing parliamentary inquiry commissions, which can be a decent way to obstruct the government by busying the bureaucracy and hogging media time.
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In phone polls, not an election...
But they already performed very well in the last election.
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Yes. That's a usual number for representative polling. Sometimes, they ask 1.000, sometimes 2.000. The other German polling institutes are doing the same.
So it is a poll of people who answer phone numbers they don’t recognize.
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So it is a poll of people who answer phone numbers they don’t recognize.
You can of course criticize that, but Forsa exists since 1984 and they are not known for publishing unrealistic polls. The polls are not the problem here. The people turning off their brains and voting for the far right are the problem.
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They just asked 1502 people by phone.
That's how statistics works. You take a sample and interpret the reality based on that sample. When you get a blood exam, you don't need to check all the blood, you take a sample and based on that get a result.
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I'm not calming down. This dumb shit happens just far too often lately. I have no idea, why people insinuate things others never said and burn that strawman down, but I'm getting too tired and more and more pissed off by it, to the point where I wonder if it's even worth it or I should rather stop discussing.
Shit's annoying AF.
You should stop discussing because what you call a straw man is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of your comment. If you don't want it to be open to interpretation, you should be more clear, rather than get mad at people taking one of the reasonable interpretations.
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Germany, you're supposed to be good guys this round.
Germany is the America of the EU, since Britain left
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Many of those aren't real votes but "protest" support. Very dumb imo. They're hoping its a wakeup to the other parties but it really just emboldens the afd.
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So CDU is just AfD in disguise...
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You should stop discussing because what you call a straw man is a perfectly reasonable interpretation of your comment. If you don't want it to be open to interpretation, you should be more clear, rather than get mad at people taking one of the reasonable interpretations.
About as reasonable an interpretation as asking you if you mean humans shouldn't ever feel emotions by saying "Calm down".
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I see a growth trend that if it continues will suck even more in a few years
This is the important insight. The absolute numbers in any poll aren't that interesting. The trends are.
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Many of those aren't real votes but "protest" support. Very dumb imo. They're hoping its a wakeup to the other parties but it really just emboldens the afd.
Please look at the US and what's happening here right now.
A significant portion of Trump's voters in 2016 were protest anti-establishment voters and they've been converted into full on Fascist voters in the 8 years since then.
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Many of those aren't real votes but "protest" support. Very dumb imo. They're hoping its a wakeup to the other parties but it really just emboldens the afd.
Are they dumber than the parties that didn't get the message?
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Many of those aren't real votes but "protest" support. Very dumb imo. They're hoping its a wakeup to the other parties but it really just emboldens the afd.
Nah I don't buy it. Nazis voting for nazis know what they are doing. AfDs plan is clear, like project 2025 was and their voters like what they see and should be treated and handled accordingly.
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Everybody in Germany. Please talk to family members that you don't talk to about how this is dangerous to you. I know I have these in my family that I should invest in instead of always talking to the closest ones. Also make sure to beat them with genuine questions that break open their confidence in the reasoning with the socratic way (epistemology)
- What? Belief.
- Why? Reason
- How? Method for Proof
Or
- Identify Persuasion
- Question "What is it actually", definition
--In between ask for scale 1-10 how confident into the topic are you and importance queries - Why do you believe that?
- How could one determine whether this is really true?
--In between the scale and importance queries - Best argument for and strongest argument against?
- Reflect, i.e. repeat what has been said in your own words
eighthly
It's not about being well versed in the topic of conversation
But good questionsThis!
The best strategy is to engage in genuine conversations.
Most people just label the unknowledgable as stupid and attempt to desperately convince them with a bombardment of facts and counter-arguments. Even worse is just calling them "Nazi" and leave it at that. This is futile with some people who have gone down too deep into the hate-train of social media. They will immediately mentally blockade what you're saying and the cycle continues.
It's way more effective to get into a friendly conversation and actually engage with what they are saying. Listen. Ask questions. Listen. Ask questions. Understand why they believe what they believe. Be open to their arguments, however rediculous you might find them.
The most important thing you need to realize that it's not their fault and they are not stupid! They are just the output of their environment. Everyone has emotions. And everyone deals with them differently. Everyone has their environment. And everyone sources their information from that environment. Everyone has parts of their lives where they are misinformed or less educated than an expert in the field. You too! Consequently, the way to change someone's belief is to change their environment while understanding their emotional basis.
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Everybody in Germany. Please talk to family members that you don't talk to about how this is dangerous to you. I know I have these in my family that I should invest in instead of always talking to the closest ones. Also make sure to beat them with genuine questions that break open their confidence in the reasoning with the socratic way (epistemology)
- What? Belief.
- Why? Reason
- How? Method for Proof
Or
- Identify Persuasion
- Question "What is it actually", definition
--In between ask for scale 1-10 how confident into the topic are you and importance queries - Why do you believe that?
- How could one determine whether this is really true?
--In between the scale and importance queries - Best argument for and strongest argument against?
- Reflect, i.e. repeat what has been said in your own words
eighthly
It's not about being well versed in the topic of conversation
But good questionsTotally. Good one is showing genuinely curiosity on problems we face. For example, what would be AfD solution for tenant issues and protections? The USA can be also a good one. What I mean is the endorsement from Elon Musk for the AfD and AfDs endorsement of Trumps, whom they dislike as well. Encouraging them to catch up with relatives from the USA and how they're doing with the current republican regime.
With some however it's too cumbersome or fruitless to argue and discuss in my opinion. So I stick to calling out the lack of serious or sensible solutions and stirred up hatred. There are enough cognitive dissonance, economy incorrect conclusions to call out...
Basically some Fascists will only waste your time - good YT Video. -
If the current government is even willing and able to serve their term to its end (the previous one didn't), and actually improve the situation enough so people stop running after some rat catchers with a simple lie as the supposed solution.
But the Left and Greens are in opposition — this is a chance. Hopefully they are able to mobilise as well in the coming years.
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Someone explain, are these the Nazis?
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Someone explain, are these the Nazis?
they are the neo-Nazis
