AfD is the most popular party in Germany for the first time, with a record 26%
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Germany should have actually denazified instead of the joke they did. Also should have reunited the two germanys instead of what happened which was basically a west German conquest of east Germany contributing greatly to its impoverershment.
Honest question, what was wrong with the denazification that was carried out? Did they have any historical example to compare to?
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Honest question, what was wrong with the denazification that was carried out? Did they have any historical example to compare to?
Jeah wondering the same, like Germany was already doing a lot more compared to other countries with previous facist governments
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Germany: well, okay, listen, it's not working out for America, and it didn't work out for us that one time, but they promised it'll be different for us. What's a few civil liberties and social safety nets if it means we get to
extract slave labor from immigrantsput immigrants in prison for life for the crime of existing?Innuendo Studios summarized it rather well with:
"We're not like those other fascists. We're young, hip, and successful. Come back, baby. It'll be different this time."
https://youtu.be/5Luu1Beb8ng?list=PLJA_jUddXvY7v0VkYRbANnTnzkA_HMFtQ&t=1179
His whole series on White Fascism and the current Alt-Right is a phenomenal summary of today's right wing "conservative" (fascist / nazi) landscape in an internet-connected age. Nothing has truly changed for them: they're still a suicide cult based around attacking "the other" (whatever they pick to attack) and then narrowing who is allowed to be at the top until everyone is dead.
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And stil the state refuses to ban them, refuses to arrest and sentence their leaders.
It will be Weimar 2.0 with liberals being either too incompetent or too unwilling to stop fascism.
Fascism is not stopped at the podium or in parliament. It is stopped with bullets and bombs. The longer you wait the more bullets and bombs it will take and the more lives it will cost.
Using bullets and bombs would make the rest not better than the fascists, so lets not use them.
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Using bullets and bombs would make the rest not better than the fascists, so lets not use them.
No it wouldn't, it would make you smart enough to speak to the fascists in the only language they understand. Words don't work against fascists because they don't care what words mean. Better to defend yourself now while you still can.
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Using bullets and bombs would make the rest not better than the fascists, so lets not use them.
We don't need to be tolerant to the intolerant.
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This!
The best strategy is to engage in genuine conversations.
Most people just label the unknowledgable as stupid and attempt to desperately convince them with a bombardment of facts and counter-arguments. Even worse is just calling them "Nazi" and leave it at that. This is futile with some people who have gone down too deep into the hate-train of social media. They will immediately mentally blockade what you're saying and the cycle continues.
It's way more effective to get into a friendly conversation and actually engage with what they are saying. Listen. Ask questions. Listen. Ask questions. Understand why they believe what they believe. Be open to their arguments, however rediculous you might find them.
The most important thing you need to realize that it's not their fault and they are not stupid! They are just the output of their environment. Everyone has emotions. And everyone deals with them differently. Everyone has their environment. And everyone sources their information from that environment. Everyone has parts of their lives where they are misinformed or less educated than an expert in the field. You too! Consequently, the way to change someone's belief is to change their environment while understanding their emotional basis.
and everyone is at a different stage in their life. If i'd have to talk to 10-years-ago-me I wouldnt agree with them in beliefs that are still held today pretty commonly
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This is why I keep telling people we are fucked by focusing in increasing military powerr in europe even if it appears and is obviously needed. We are going to put all the power at the hands of insane lunatics ready to wage 2ar and put people in ovens.
It's happening in all countries in Europe. I think in mine we'll have elections next month or something like that and the extreme right is at 2nd or 3rd position ready to take first or will join hands with another to win. It was so close already last time. No matrer how many crimes all their members do show up in the news every week.
It's what the people want. Most people everywhere are ok and want homicidal narcissist and sociopathic people in charge of them.
Best of luck to you and your country staying sane-ish a little longer.
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Did you not realize that they performed incredibly well in the elections? Social media is how they will overthrow the last remaining democracies. France, UK and Canada are next. All the young folks are increasingly more conservative and within 2-6 years, it's going to be game over.
No, I didn't. I've been drowning in depression keeping up with what is happening in the US.
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Honest question, what was wrong with the denazification that was carried out? Did they have any historical example to compare to?
Think about it like this: What do you do if everyone is at least complicit?
While the soviets excluded the old elites from their new regime, the west focused more on reintegrating them. That being said, both sides were willing to turn a blind eye if you where qualified enough and needed for the continued function of society.So for example the head of the neurological society was a doctor who experimented on brains of executed prisoners and children. And unfortunately this was the rule, not the exception.
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Not sure why you're getting downvoted, maybe people just don't like to hear it. You're not wrong.
To add, these people generally have more kids, and raise them to be conservative. It's depressing. It might take some severe hardship on people to shift left again? Not sure what that is, hopefully not another world War.
The shift left is not happening until theres a major (most likely violent) crisis. As it is, America will become Russia 2.0 and this will probably be the staus quo for a while.
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Honest question, what was wrong with the denazification that was carried out? Did they have any historical example to compare to?
The fact that it didn't happen? That a lot of the very few who got actual sentences (less than those who worked just at Auschwitz)were pardoned before their time was up. That all levels of the post war German government was filled with nazi party members. That it was quickly abandoned even in the limited and performative form it existed it to unite to fight "the communist threat". I don't need a historical example of a successful de radicalization in order to say this one didn't happen and its a myth it did.
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Using bullets and bombs would make the rest not better than the fascists, so lets not use them.
War and violence have existed long before fascism. It's not their invention or monopoly.
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The fact that it didn't happen? That a lot of the very few who got actual sentences (less than those who worked just at Auschwitz)were pardoned before their time was up. That all levels of the post war German government was filled with nazi party members. That it was quickly abandoned even in the limited and performative form it existed it to unite to fight "the communist threat". I don't need a historical example of a successful de radicalization in order to say this one didn't happen and its a myth it did.
Ok I get what you mean. But what was the realistic alternative when (like another poster mentioned) everyone is partly complicit and society has to be rebuilt? Who can the chief surgeon of the hospital be replaced with? Everyone professionally competent in any position of esteem has to have been at least partially complicit or compliant with the previous regime. Historical context is important because I think it is a near impossible task. Pol pot killed everyone, de-Baathification created more of a mess (both efforts to weed things out later, presumably using Germany as a bad example).
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*In an opinion poll
I mean lets not confuse an opinion poll with the truth. These things regularly get things a couple points off. In fact that’s the norm.
That's what people have been saying for years and yet the AfD is already the second strongest in the last election...
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These polls don't matter much. Next major election in Germany is in 2029.I'd argue these assholes didn't win the battle just yet. Anti lobby work, Investments in military power, education and quality of life for people are just some of the things to convince more people. Four years is plenty.
I have no trust in the current coalition to make that happen...
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And stil the state refuses to ban them, refuses to arrest and sentence their leaders.
It will be Weimar 2.0 with liberals being either too incompetent or too unwilling to stop fascism.
Fascism is not stopped at the podium or in parliament. It is stopped with bullets and bombs. The longer you wait the more bullets and bombs it will take and the more lives it will cost.
Weimar was a small civil war between soldiers who returned from WW1. That's why both the left and the right had fighters. Where should the fighters who shoot the bullets come from now?
The fascists came to power because the elite feared that the communists could win. Otherwise, despite massive manipulation, the fascists never got an absolute majority.
There are many issues that other parties simply ignore. There would be far less voteres for the AfD if the other parties would listen. The AfD started with the demand that the rules about euro stability shouldn't be ignored. That's not a fascist position.
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Just looking at the people around me (mostly colleagues, I'm not friends with this kind of people) it's no surprise, when just about anything triggers them to vote AfD. Some actual examples:
"We have a vegetarian day at the cafeteria now. Stupid Greens forcing me to not eat meat one day a week. I'm going to vote AfD next election."
"They built a new bicycle lane on my way to work. Now I'm forced to stick to the speed limit because of all the bicyclists on MY road blocking me. It's a straight street, I should be able to go 80 even though it's inner city. I've always been going 80 there! Stupid Greens, I'm going to vote AfD next election."
"Supplier X stopped issuing their bikini model calendar. Everything is forbidden nowadays! Noone ever cared for bikini model calenders, but the Greens want to forbid every little piece of fun. Stupid woke culture. I'm going to vote AfD."
And let's not forget that one boss who told me that my life-threatening nut allergy was woke nonsense, because back in his day "everybody just ate what's on the table and noone died, but nowadays everybody has to feel special by making up things they won't eat."
They just want to go back to 1950s culture, when gay people, trans people, allergies, ADHD, autism, veganism, climate change and anything other than straight white dudes and straight white housewives "didn't exist", because how dare the world be more complex than a Rosamunde Pilcher movie.
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Socially, the Greens stand exactly where the "Social Democrats" stand. They are a party of privileged academics who are plagued by their ecological conscience. And the Left still has Putin bootlicker vibes (they call it "peace"), even though the worst Putin bootlickers left them to form their own party.
As I said: opposition is always a chance to rethink your position and get a sharper profile. The Left is moving in a good direction after the breakup. Parties are huge constructs that need sone time to change. My hope is that the Greens will be pulled to the left as well.
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I read 50% of the men in Germany died in ww2 ….but yea cool Nazis what could go wrong.? Fuck around and find out I guess
