Hubris
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How big does a wave have to be for a ship of that size to even notice it as anything other than a weight shift?
I mean I was really concerned about that as well, having been on the ferries which go from Turku to Stockholm. As I said though, they're kinda tiny in comparison. They're not like ferries between France and the UK or Ireland and the UK, but like more cruise ships.
Icon of the Seas is like double the length of the cruise ships I've been on (Vikin Line Isabella ~160m, Viking Line Grace ~218, Icon of the Seas 360m) but the point I made once was that just a medium storm in the archipelago of Baltic Sea, that boat was going kinda hard side to side. As in the water in the pool splashed out like a third or something and you could not walk straight in the hallways. It was bloody fun though, one of my first proper times of getting drunk.
We didn't really realise it at the time with my buddy, but the ~50 year old guy buying us 14-15y olds drinks in a sauna was probably a bit of a nonce.
Anyway, my point was that if those ships go that bendy in the Baltic Sea, wtf would this do in the Atlantic? However, some engineer pointed out that 1) it's gonna be cruising in the Caribbean and 2) the stabilisation tech that's built in a ship so much larger per tonnage is gonna make it way more stable. Plus it's way newer so the tech is better as well.
Because if the pool splashed around as much as the medium size jacuzzi we were in with the nonce, then I'd be scared to go to some of those top pools.
I don't remember the specifics, but I do remember that the guy convinced me.
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Says someone with no anxiety disorder or awareness of the ecological harm they wreak
You're right, I don't have an anxiety disorder. However, I do know the ecological harm they cause. That doesn't make them not fun. Lots of fun things aren't good for the environment.
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Sure they might fall in the concrete, but that would be really obviously about to happen to have the fall.
Or like others have pointed out, they're using equipment designed for this, and probably nothing will happen lol
This equipment is not designed for this at all.
Guaranteed the specs for that lift say that it can only be operated from the ground.
Guaranteed the specs for that dock say that it can not be used as a platform for any kind of equipment, and that it must be used as a "dock" (secured to something) and not a barge.
If your risk assessment is "Probably nothing will happen lol", it's probably a good time to re-think your approach. It's easy to be flippant looking at memes on lemmy, but it's just madness to risk your life so your employer can save a few dollars.
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The only people thinking this looks too risky are the same people who don't understand why ships float and planes fly. They don't understand the natural sciences.
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I get that it looks risky, but I don't really see a problem here. The platform is in undisturbed water, no waves, no sudden changes. If the platform is strong enough, which it seems to be to me, it will not easily tip over.
I've worked on a few lifts like that, and if you manage to tip one over I can only say that you were either really stupid or you were trying to do it. All the weight is at the bottom. They are very stable.
The only way to make them fall over is if your floor is not level while driving. Driving is out of the question in this picture, and as long as both guys stay in the fork lift the center of gravity will not change much.
So the platform will not move, the lift will not move, basically they are fine.
If something was to happen you're fucked though.
And different solutions are available. I've personally been in a different lift that had an arm so the lift would be a the side of the pool and the part where I was standing was elevated above the water. That probably would be a better solution, if you have enough space to get one of those lifts in.
Disagree. The lift is on a gimbal. If the wheels on one side of the lift are 1cm higher than the other, that would move the platform at the top by 8cm or something. If both guys are on one side of the platform that could be enough to make the whole thing tilt by another 1cm at the wheels, and so on.
That lift is not designed to be operated on a plastic barge.
That dock is not designed to carry equipment, certainly not an elevated platform, and is not designed to be operated as a barge.
IDK why there's so many commenters here rushing to defend this kind of practice. Working at height, on equipment not intended for that application is a hard no. Why would you work for an employer that would put you in that situation? This kind of "it's probably fine" risk assessment is just absurd.
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If it works, it's not hybris, is it?
If this unexploded land mine doesn't go off and kill me the moment it gets jostled, then it's not dangerous, is it?
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If it's stupid and it works, it's not stupid.
If it's stupid and it works, then it's a stupid thing that works.
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Maybe so but a boat isn’t submerged flatly like the square span of this floaty thing on the picture. If it also had some pole thingy underwater we can’t see then I wouldn’t be surprised people felt ok climbing this machinery
Additionally if it’s like filled with air, empty inside, then it would be really hard to capsize this thing at all because of how it refuses to sink from any corner or side
It’s not as dramatic as it looks is my point, looks funny but actually it’s probably pretty safe because we under appreciate the lifting force of floaty shit filled with air. Boats need to be hydrodynamic so they are naturally more prone to shenanigans like a barrel on the water would be but this square thing is dedicated to sole task of not capsizing with great resistance to being submerged at any point of itself
wrote on last edited by [email protected]For me, the problem is that, given that the mat is OBVIOUSLY flexible, it seems nigh impossible to securely tie down so that the torque when extended doesn't force the mooring lines out of place.
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Disagree. The lift is on a gimbal. If the wheels on one side of the lift are 1cm higher than the other, that would move the platform at the top by 8cm or something. If both guys are on one side of the platform that could be enough to make the whole thing tilt by another 1cm at the wheels, and so on.
That lift is not designed to be operated on a plastic barge.
That dock is not designed to carry equipment, certainly not an elevated platform, and is not designed to be operated as a barge.
IDK why there's so many commenters here rushing to defend this kind of practice. Working at height, on equipment not intended for that application is a hard no. Why would you work for an employer that would put you in that situation? This kind of "it's probably fine" risk assessment is just absurd.
What makes you say the dock isn't designed to carry equipment?
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You say it’s working but they haven’t yet gotten back out of the lift nor have they gotten the lift back out of the water.
Presumably they're not frozen in time. The post was made a day ago, so at least several hours before your comment, and the picture was probably not taken minutes before the post was made. I'd imagine they got out of the water long before any of us were aware that they were ever in the water. And given that the picture isn't accompanied by a second picture of everything in the water or a story about them falling in, it's reasonable to assume that nothing as notable as that happened.
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Does it have the slides that terminate over the ocean?
The slides look pretty similar to the illustration. I don't think those are actually slides that end over the edge, they're slides that have a transparent section where they hang over the edge so you can get a little glimpse of being over the open ocean. Which I guess is an extra kind of thrill? I would pass.
Here's a screenshot of the video for comparison.
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What makes you say the dock isn't designed to carry equipment?
Show me me the specs. Note also that this dock is not fixed to pylons, so it's being used as a barge.
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The only people thinking this looks too risky are the same people who don't understand why ships float and planes fly. They don't understand the natural sciences.
This looks like a management photo op death trap to me. I'm not worried about a scissor jack being used on a flat floating surface in a pool, it's that it isn't secured to anything at all that really seems non OSHA compliant here. I just have really strong personal ethics about not eating shit 12+ feet off the ground in an hourly position. now IF the floatation device is rated for this use, and it's actually secured in place, sure, fine, but that's not what's happening.
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Show me me the specs. Note also that this dock is not fixed to pylons, so it's being used as a barge.
wrote on last edited by [email protected]What? I asked what makes you certain that the dock isn't designed for it. If you're certain, presumably you have a reason for this certainty and already know the specs from looking at it. I can't see into your mind to know your motivation for making this assertion, which is why I asked.
I assume you have some expertise that makes this obvious to you, so would you like to share it?
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If this unexploded land mine doesn't go off and kill me the moment it gets jostled, then it's not dangerous, is it?
Well of course the unexploded land mine is not dangerous.
By the time the danger comes to you, it will be an exploding land mine or an exploded land mine. -
What? I asked what makes you certain that the dock isn't designed for it. If you're certain, presumably you have a reason for this certainty and already know the specs from looking at it. I can't see into your mind to know your motivation for making this assertion, which is why I asked.
I assume you have some expertise that makes this obvious to you, so would you like to share it?
I consider myself an expert in not dying.
No one with a Height Safety Clearance is going to work from a platform which is not certified for that use.
It's up to you to prove that this contraption is certified. Spoiler: it's not.
Anyhow, while I look forward to reading your final witty retort, I'm happy to let you engage in whatever practices you deem to be safe while I do the same. Good day sir.
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Disagree. The lift is on a gimbal. If the wheels on one side of the lift are 1cm higher than the other, that would move the platform at the top by 8cm or something. If both guys are on one side of the platform that could be enough to make the whole thing tilt by another 1cm at the wheels, and so on.
That lift is not designed to be operated on a plastic barge.
That dock is not designed to carry equipment, certainly not an elevated platform, and is not designed to be operated as a barge.
IDK why there's so many commenters here rushing to defend this kind of practice. Working at height, on equipment not intended for that application is a hard no. Why would you work for an employer that would put you in that situation? This kind of "it's probably fine" risk assessment is just absurd.
Well, have you ever stood on a lift like that? I did, on a regular basis. You can lean over quite a bit with them.
Also, the lift itself already has play. You can easily get it to swing 4 centimeters while the base is stationary. It's just play in bearings and metal slightly bending.
I agree that the lift is not made to be like that. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I've done worse, that is for sure.
But you have to use your brain.Clearly the platform has great floating capacity. If the platform would not be capable of carrying that load, it would have sunk by now. The lift is in the middle, who j means the load is putting equal pressure on all sides. That has a stabilizing effect.
Water also pushes back. If you've every tried to flip a raft in the pool, you know that it is much easier if you move it side to side a few times, the water wil help you push it over, as long as you keep adding energy at every swing. If you don't, you will stabilize.
Unless something keeps adding energy to the swing, the swing will only get smaller and smaller. If it's swinging too much? Just stand still, don't move and let it stabilize.
The one thing to keep in mind is that the higher you go, the bigger the leverage is. At some point it will probably tip over if you swing it too much, but I don't think those guys are at that point.
But in the end, this is probably not the proper way to do the work. It's fun to discuss it, but a professional company would arrange something else.
Still legendary though, I've worked for companies that would do sketchy shit sometimes and while dangerous, it was also kind of fun. And I always checked for myself first if it was safe. Because I want to go home at the end of the day. Doesn't mean you have to be scared of everything though.
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If it's maintenance they have to do regularly, there might even be a part of the pool tooled for it with arms for the floating block to sit on while they drive the lift on and off normally. Or a ramp with rollers where it gets launched like a boat and a winch to pull it back up the ramp to get out. That last one is my guess, since that whole setup could be portable as long as they had somewhere to anchor the ramp and winch.
If it's regular maintenance you get a lift that goes higher and you do it when you change the water in the pool. If the pool is empty you can just drive on the floor. Just gotta have something to lower it onto the pool floor.
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Well, have you ever stood on a lift like that? I did, on a regular basis. You can lean over quite a bit with them.
Also, the lift itself already has play. You can easily get it to swing 4 centimeters while the base is stationary. It's just play in bearings and metal slightly bending.
I agree that the lift is not made to be like that. But sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I've done worse, that is for sure.
But you have to use your brain.Clearly the platform has great floating capacity. If the platform would not be capable of carrying that load, it would have sunk by now. The lift is in the middle, who j means the load is putting equal pressure on all sides. That has a stabilizing effect.
Water also pushes back. If you've every tried to flip a raft in the pool, you know that it is much easier if you move it side to side a few times, the water wil help you push it over, as long as you keep adding energy at every swing. If you don't, you will stabilize.
Unless something keeps adding energy to the swing, the swing will only get smaller and smaller. If it's swinging too much? Just stand still, don't move and let it stabilize.
The one thing to keep in mind is that the higher you go, the bigger the leverage is. At some point it will probably tip over if you swing it too much, but I don't think those guys are at that point.
But in the end, this is probably not the proper way to do the work. It's fun to discuss it, but a professional company would arrange something else.
Still legendary though, I've worked for companies that would do sketchy shit sometimes and while dangerous, it was also kind of fun. And I always checked for myself first if it was safe. Because I want to go home at the end of the day. Doesn't mean you have to be scared of everything though.
Unless something keeps adding energy to the swing, the swing will only get smaller and smaller. If it's swinging too much? Just stand still, don't move and let it stabilize.
Guy this just isn't true. The people on the top are on a gimbal (?) The further they are from the centre of the base the more weight is on their side and the further they will move from the centre of the base.
I'm not trying to be derisive or whatever but checking whether you think something is safe isn't really good enough. If that's the company culture then sooner or later some idiot injures themselves unnecessarily because they checked whatever thing and thought it was safe.
Safety regulations and certifications take the decision of whether something is safe out of your hands.
