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  3. What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?

What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Asklemmy
asklemmy
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  • M [email protected]

    While I have progressive ideas and believe the Republicans rule with malace, I also strongly believe the democrats rule with incompetence.

    I would love to run for president on the party of burn down the two party system and restart from there. Make politics boring again and not some partisan winner take all spectacle. We keep pushing to out 'wing' the 'wing' and it is driving us to some bad extremes.

    So yes, I will vote straight ticket Democrat for 99% of the time, but I am also disgusted by the fact anyone is even allowed to do that and people have little party letters by their name. If you didn't research your candidate to at least know their name, then you shouldn't be voting for them.

    It is mind-blowing to me that some things are not seen as human rights and are instead seen as political posturing. In Texas we had barbed wire intentionally strung up in the Rio Grande river with the intention to drownd people and it took multiple rounds of court cases to make them take it out. Somehow killing people is acceptable rather than booking, ticketing, and sending back. Politics have now taken a place above literal lives. At the same time, when I express this I have democrats immediately agreeing and adding "just let them in!" Or "just let them stay and we will figure it out" and that is where I stop them and ask, is that what I said? No. Simply that human life is worth more than politics. Again, stringing up barbed wire in a river to intentionally drown people it true malice. But saying let them all in and figure it out later is naive at best, and incompetence at its worst.

    T This user is from outside of this forum
    T This user is from outside of this forum
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    wrote on last edited by
    #38

    Democratic politicians tend to be cynical more than ignorant, friend. They feign incompetence because taking actions is against their larger strategy of holding to whatever the current status quo is or whatever pleases donors (these are usually the same).

    We're talking about a group that acts like it can't deliver on basic platform promises because of a parliamentarian they can just fire and replace like the GOP has done reoeatedly and then turns around and breaks plenty of its own rules when a SocDem grandpa (Bernie) gives people some hope for positive change.

    The party relishes in scapegoats for inaction because they do not, in actuality, oppose the status quo nor even most of the changes made by e.g. Trump. Their opposition is performative, it is meant to get someone to do that 99% voting for them thing and then call it a day politically. Their main agenda is to say there is no acceptable alternative beyond their controlled neoliberal duopoly.

    "Make politics boring again" simply means you have no connection to the immense violences carried out by that status quo, or do not recognize them as such. Tell me, for which period of time was US politics boring? During slavery? Settler colonial genocide of the people who lived here? Jim Crow? Labor fights? Imperial conquests throughout the Americas, Hawaii, The Philippines? Both World Wars? The Great Depression? The Cold War and its many sponsored coups and genocides? The forced unequal exchange for the countries it dominates? The frequent hot wars it begets around the world?

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    • J [email protected]

      Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

      G This user is from outside of this forum
      G This user is from outside of this forum
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      wrote on last edited by
      #39

      Strong advocate for people under 25 and over 75 not having the vote.

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      • sc2pirate@lemmy.worldS [email protected]

        What an interesting take...I assume you will be down voted into oblivion, but it is thought provoking all the same. When I was younger I thought police helped people and I probably would have considered being a police officer. Now, I can't imagine who would want to and I immediately question anyone who would. I have to imagine this is causing the people who truly want to help people to avoid the profession.

        U This user is from outside of this forum
        U This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #40

        I know a few people who are police, one being a very close friend who is now retired from being a cop. Not a single one of them is a bad person or cop. The stories I hear from them make me wonder why they would do it, and the universal answer is usually to help people. The best part is that of the six or so people I know counting my friends, they are all quitting because people treat them so badly juat for doing thier job, and they will be replaced with cops who show no compassion. I myself have many stories of cops being understanding and caring and, in turn, being very lenient. When I talk to people with the acab mentality, the police never go easy. It's odd how just treat people how you want to be treated works.

        darkdemize@sh.itjust.worksD polandisastateofmind@lemmy.mlP 2 Replies Last reply
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        • T [email protected]

          Donald Trump isn’t stupid.

          J This user is from outside of this forum
          J This user is from outside of this forum
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          wrote on last edited by
          #41

          I think of him as astoundingly stupid. But he ain't dumb.

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          • D [email protected]

            I see the sentiment that money should be abolished here all the time, but this is the first time I've actually seen a proposed replacement. It's an interesting idea.

            cowbee@lemmy.mlC This user is from outside of this forum
            cowbee@lemmy.mlC This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #42

            It's Marxist, so you can go to Marx for more on that.

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            • azzu@lemm.eeA [email protected]

              Do people really stop competing with one another if the borders are closed? And if so, how? In my mind, neither open nor closed borders change anything in the amount of competition there is, it just changes the groups involved.

              gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
              gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #43

              If there's no free trade, you don't try to undercut the prices of your neighbor's factory. You just produce your thing, and that's it.

              azzu@lemm.eeA 1 Reply Last reply
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              • J [email protected]

                I think we need to figure out how to make leftism more appealing to centrists, and particularly to the cis/straight/white/male demographic.

                cosmiccleric@lemmy.worldC This user is from outside of this forum
                cosmiccleric@lemmy.worldC This user is from outside of this forum
                [email protected]
                wrote on last edited by
                #44

                Fundamentally, what Centrists want is stability, for people to get along, to find solutions that the majority on both sides would agree with. For the status-quoish state of stability.

                A Centrist would be a Liberal (as its defined today, and not how it was defined in the 70's/80's) before they would be a Leftist. They perceive Capitalism as a stable foundation of the society.

                To get a Centrist to believe in Leftist ideals you'd have to try and show that Leftism is also stable, AND describe how the transition/change to Leftism on its own would not be an unstabilizing thing. And also how Capitalism is a dead-end alley for the species ultimately, and how its ultimately hurtful to a society by incouraging fighting and competition between its members.

                You'd also have to show that Rightism would understand that Leftism works. Centrists want both Leftists and Rightists to be 'happy' (loaded word I know, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to opine on).

                No idea how to do all that, but IMO that's what would need to be done. You'd have to get the Right on board with Leftism, and you'd have to show Centrists that moving to Leftism won't be destabilizing to their current way of existing.

                Best guess would be to appeal to common belief systems (fairness, freedoms, respect) that all three pillars would have in common.

                An overall generic example would be to prove to a Rightist that a hand-out to someone is not being unfair, but its just helping someone out until they get on their feet, and can't be exploited, to try and "raise all boats" in society. And you'd have to tell some Leftists to stop trying to exploit the system, that they're now back on their feet, and that they need to put in as much effort as everybody else does.

                For Leftists/Rightists stop yelling across the divide at each other, and start talking to each other, trying to understand what is important to them, and see if both sides can meet in the middle on those things that are important to both. Centrists will be happy that the fighting has stopped, and then you'd have to be extra careful not to destroy that non-fighting in trying to move the center to the left.

                Oh, and do all of this while we have freedom of speech and people purposely trying to shape the narratives towards what they just want and to F with everybody else. A.k.a., "Free Will is a Pain in the Ass".

                Thank you for coming to my 🧸-Talk.

                ~This~ ~comment~ ~is~ ~licensed~ ~under~ ~CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0~

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                • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG [email protected]

                  I'm a strict leftist, that means, i believe that humans (in fact, all life) are valuable. Yes, you have to say that in these times. Lots of politicians these days seem to disagree with even that.

                  As a direct consequence, i advocate for UBI (universal basic income). Because the people need to live off something, and it is getting harder by the year to be successful through your own labor. (As numerous articles describe, - i won't link them here, because that would be out of scope - hashtag "working poor").

                  However, i think the borders must be closed. That affects both goods and migration. If the borders are closed, people stop competing with one another. Just a reminder: "compete" comes from Latin and basically means "fight". People are fighing against one another, and i think that makes a society sick. If the borders close, economy slows down considerably, and people stop competing.

                  U This user is from outside of this forum
                  U This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote on last edited by
                  #45

                  What I find funny is that some days I'll be adamant about how bad UBI would be because of the cost, and the next, I'd be the loudest voice next to yours for its good. I feel it would be super easy to implement. Basically, you'd tax every company for every self checkout machine as if each machine is a person and the salary that would be paid to the person is instead of a machine would be used to fund it. I k ow its poorly worded, but I hope people have enough sense to understand what I mean.

                  gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • J [email protected]

                    I think we need to figure out how to make leftism more appealing to centrists, and particularly to the cis/straight/white/male demographic.

                    undefined@lemmy.hogru.chU This user is from outside of this forum
                    undefined@lemmy.hogru.chU This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #46

                    As a person in that demographic it’s wild to me that leftism isn’t appealing… we’re supposed to just blame everything on everyone but ourselves I suppose?

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                    • R [email protected]

                      I'm generally leaning towards progressive or left-wing ideas, but with a few exceptions.

                      • While I support the goals of diversity, equity, and inclusion, I believe that DEI initiatives are highly susceptible to exploitation because of the widespread and largely uncritical public support of the concept (or even just the abbreviation) with little regard to the implementation; and by tokenizing ethnicity, gender, and identity, it is at risk of doing what it was meant to prevent.
                      • I believe that law enforcement is a deeply flawed system to say the least, but ultimately necessary because the alternatives are lawlessness or ineffectual systems. This is of course colored by my European perspective where guns and driver's licenses aren't handed out like candy.
                      • The "tolerance is a social contract" mentality is hurting society. A person who experiences rejection and exclusion from progressive communities for voicing "intolerant" opinions will not be interested in reconciliation, and will inevitably fall in with a more radical group where they experience acceptance and belonging. Integration should be sought whenever reasonable.

                      The last point is especially important to me. I grew up in a fairly conservative environment, and it took me a lot of conscious effort to un-learn my prejudices and learn acceptance. But whenever I get downvoted and shouted down for voicing an opinion that aligns with conservatives, or simply isn't "leftist" enough, it makes me want to distance myself from "leftist" ideology and adds to my disillusionment.

                      T This user is from outside of this forum
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                      wrote on last edited by
                      #47

                      The first point is a fairly common opinion among communists, who understand "DEI" to be a liberal cooption of liberationist language and thought that tokenizes identities and reworks the concepts in favor of exploiters (and was doomed to be shed the moment it was less profitable for exploiters).

                      It may be beneficial to consider the second point with some nuance that is often neglected in order to agitate. Again with communists, you will find many that hate their country's cops but acknowledge the necessity in a post-revolutionary framework, either in their own visions for their own revolution or in defending the actions taken by their comrades that rapidly discover the need for some form of organized enforcement. One way to think about this is that the police are an arm of the state, and who that state serves via its structures and nature changes how they operate. In OECD countries, cops primarily serve capital. They protect profits based on shop owner complaints, shut down capital-inconvenient demonstrations, etc, and spend little time helping average people. In many capitalist countries, cops are underpaid and openly corrupt, so they do the same things while being more obvious bribes. In countries run by socialists, cops of course still do many cop things, but you will find them spending more of their time on other tasks, there are fewer per capita, and the job of being a cop in capitalist counties has been split into many different jobs that don't involve having a gun or otherwise carrying out the worst actions taken by cops. So, in short, it is entirely coherent to hate your local cops as an arm of capital that will beat you for protesting while not condemning the mere existence of cops in other countries while also understanding that we want to create a society free of them.

                      For the third point, it really depends on what you mean by accepting. Socialists need to educate people where they are, warts and all, but you also cannot be taillist and morph your work into accepting reactionary positions. That defeats the entire point of rejecting reactionary positions. Patience in explaining is valuable, tacit agreement with racism/xenophobia/sexism/homophobia/transphobia/etc is counterproductive. In addition, getting dunked on can and does create results. Despite growing up conservative and getting dunked on by those to your left, you now think of yourself as non-conservative. Are you sure none of those dunks ever led you to question your positions?

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                      • U [email protected]

                        What I find funny is that some days I'll be adamant about how bad UBI would be because of the cost, and the next, I'd be the loudest voice next to yours for its good. I feel it would be super easy to implement. Basically, you'd tax every company for every self checkout machine as if each machine is a person and the salary that would be paid to the person is instead of a machine would be used to fund it. I k ow its poorly worded, but I hope people have enough sense to understand what I mean.

                        gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                        gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #48

                        Yeah, there's a lot of technicalities involved. Like, do you tax the companies directly, or rather the billionaires owning the companies?

                        My proposal so far is: Every person who has citizenship has to pay 3% of their total wealth off as wealth tax annually. That would fund surprisingly much. I did some preliminary math, and in germany, such a wealth tax alone would provide every person with citizenship with approximately $120 /month.

                        Which is just a small support. UBI doesn't necessarily need to jump from 0 to 100%, maybe it's easier to introduce it slowly and then increase the value.

                        If i may ask: what makes you against UBI on some days?

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                        • terevos@lemm.eeT [email protected]

                          That Trump is neither conservative (in any way) nor cares at all about any traditional Republican values

                          darkdemize@sh.itjust.worksD This user is from outside of this forum
                          darkdemize@sh.itjust.worksD This user is from outside of this forum
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                          wrote on last edited by
                          #49

                          Trump and MAGA are regressive. They are hell-bent on taking this country back to the first half of the 20th century, in all the worst possible ways.

                          rocketpoweredgorilla@lemmy.caR S 2 Replies Last reply
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                          • J [email protected]

                            Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

                            jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
                            jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #50

                            The animals we create are morally entitled to the exact same unconditional love and protection as our own children.

                            ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU J black0ut@pawb.socialB K 4 Replies Last reply
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                            • T [email protected]

                              Donald Trump isn’t stupid.

                              jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
                              jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #51

                              Intelligence and stupidity have nothing to do with each other. He can do stupid things out of pride, narcissism, etc., and still be an otherwise intelligent person.

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                              • D [email protected]

                                The concept of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"

                                There's no nuance from the left. The left polices itself like the radical right thinks they (the party of law and order) do.

                                Had a podcaster get dropped by their long time partner because there were lewd text messages sent.

                                I'm tired of the reactionary bullshit, currently Dawkins and Gaiman are being dropped, and I understand not wanting to associate/support Dawkins' current views, the guy wrote very persuasive works that shouldn't lose value because he lost his empathy.

                                I still read and enjoy enders game despite knowing what a tool Card turned into, how is it so difficult to separate art from the artist?

                                jerkface@lemmy.caJ This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #52

                                There's no nuance to the left... as compared to the right?

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                                • D [email protected]

                                  The concept of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"

                                  There's no nuance from the left. The left polices itself like the radical right thinks they (the party of law and order) do.

                                  Had a podcaster get dropped by their long time partner because there were lewd text messages sent.

                                  I'm tired of the reactionary bullshit, currently Dawkins and Gaiman are being dropped, and I understand not wanting to associate/support Dawkins' current views, the guy wrote very persuasive works that shouldn't lose value because he lost his empathy.

                                  I still read and enjoy enders game despite knowing what a tool Card turned into, how is it so difficult to separate art from the artist?

                                  T This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #53

                                  Dawkins' anti-theist works and his reactionary views are related to one another. As with Hitchens and Sam Harris, their work was poorly researched and was forwarded because their real agendas were based on chauvinist attitudes, particularly against muslims.

                                  Dennett was the only good one and unfortunately he passed away. PZ Myers is less knowm but also didn't bite on the islamophobia bait.

                                  Based on the various accounts, Gaiman is a cruel and explpitative rapist and I find it difficult to appreciate words about charm or love from such a source.

                                  Do you have any other examples of people who should not be rejected by the left? Who was the podcaster?

                                  PS always kill your heroes. Being of the left means doing work and building organizations that (in addition to trying to prevent) withstand the inevitable failures of prominent figures.

                                  J 1 Reply Last reply
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                                  • J [email protected]

                                    I think we need to figure out how to make leftism more appealing to centrists, and particularly to the cis/straight/white/male demographic.

                                    T This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #54

                                    Are you active in any socialist parties?

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                                    • J [email protected]

                                      Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

                                      ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #55

                                      Necessities should be free for all.

                                      cowbee@lemmy.mlC 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • breadcat@sh.itjust.worksB [email protected]

                                        the anti-work movement has been a blight on communism

                                        ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #56

                                        Do you see it as a waste of time or a distraction? I see it as a gateway drug.

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                                        • jerkface@lemmy.caJ [email protected]

                                          The animals we create are morally entitled to the exact same unconditional love and protection as our own children.

                                          ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
                                          ultragigagigantic@lemmy.mlU This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #57

                                          You haven't met my parents.

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