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  3. What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?

What do you believe that most people of your political creed don't?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Asklemmy
asklemmy
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  • R [email protected]

    Leftism is unpopular by definition, especially to the privileged classes. Leftism seeks to upend the status quo, and loss aversion is a problem.

    Not that efforts can't be made.

    D This user is from outside of this forum
    D This user is from outside of this forum
    [email protected]
    wrote on last edited by
    #286

    How it's possible that the political movement that aim for the benefits of the 99% is unpopular by definition?

    Identity politics may be unpopular by definition.

    But the leftist movement is by definition a popular movement, and tons of alienation are needed to make people stop supporting themselves and support the 1%

    R 1 Reply Last reply
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    • J [email protected]

      Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

      ragdoll_x@sh.itjust.worksR This user is from outside of this forum
      ragdoll_x@sh.itjust.worksR This user is from outside of this forum
      [email protected]
      wrote on last edited by
      #287

      I don't like racism against white people or sexism against men. Do I think they're less urgent or worrying than bigotry directed at other groups? Sure. There's less hate against men and whites compared to other demographic groups, and bigotry against them simply doesn't have the same social or political impact due to current systemic racism and sexism being directed at other groups. But bigotry is still bigotry, and I don't like bigotry against anyone.

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      • D [email protected]

        Is it your political creed commonly against immigration?

        F This user is from outside of this forum
        F This user is from outside of this forum
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        wrote on last edited by
        #288

        China and DPRK strongly restrict immigration, whereas there are lots of neoliberals advocating immigration for free market reasons

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        • J [email protected]

          Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

          H This user is from outside of this forum
          H This user is from outside of this forum
          [email protected]
          wrote on last edited by
          #289

          I'm a lefty artist (video) and pro-A.I. That is to say, I don't believe training generative models on any information constitutes copyright infringement when the model is sold. The abstraction to latent space is sufficiently transformative.

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          • cowbee@lemmy.mlC [email protected]

            I don't really know what constitutes a "political creed," really, so I don't know how to answer.

            F This user is from outside of this forum
            F This user is from outside of this forum
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            wrote on last edited by
            #290

            He means who do you circlejerk with on tinternet

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            • F [email protected]

              They do not, as evidence by the last two decades of "progressive" politics here in the US.

              F This user is from outside of this forum
              F This user is from outside of this forum
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              wrote on last edited by
              #291

              you can't learn much about leftism from the USA

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              • S [email protected]

                Well yah. The alternative is barter and farmers only need so many cell phones and software developers.

                F This user is from outside of this forum
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                wrote on last edited by
                #292

                The alternative is barter

                No. Never has been.

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                • J [email protected]

                  It's all well and good for leftist individuals to achieve that understanding, but how can we effect change without more of the population being swayed to this ideology?

                  D This user is from outside of this forum
                  D This user is from outside of this forum
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                  wrote on last edited by
                  #293

                  You still haven’t achieved that understanding. Ideology does not come about from ‘convincing’ or ‘swaying’ anyone. I once again suggest you to read Settlers to see why this thought process is flawed. I understand where you are coming from but the material precedes the immaterial

                  J comfy@lemmy.mlC 2 Replies Last reply
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                  • D [email protected]

                    You still haven’t achieved that understanding. Ideology does not come about from ‘convincing’ or ‘swaying’ anyone. I once again suggest you to read Settlers to see why this thought process is flawed. I understand where you are coming from but the material precedes the immaterial

                    J This user is from outside of this forum
                    J This user is from outside of this forum
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                    wrote on last edited by
                    #294

                    Very well, I'll look at it.

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                    • J [email protected]

                      Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

                      kingthrillgore@lemmy.mlK This user is from outside of this forum
                      kingthrillgore@lemmy.mlK This user is from outside of this forum
                      [email protected]
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #295

                      I don't like extreme leftists (they live in a bubble) but they've been right about everything and they are our best chance at resolving economic disparity

                      M S cowbee@lemmy.mlC 3 Replies Last reply
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                      • breadcat@sh.itjust.worksB [email protected]

                        those are just vague values

                        deadcatbounce@reddthat.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                        deadcatbounce@reddthat.comD This user is from outside of this forum
                        [email protected]
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #296

                        Found the millennial or Gen Z

                        'my truth' doesn't exist: there is fact and not fact.

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                        • J [email protected]

                          Perhaps "not a person" isn't the right way to put it. More like "already passed away." I was being a bit provocative, sorry.

                          Regarding stimuli -- fair enough, that is a good argument actually. But to me that indicates a "kink" in the graph of their moral worth; it ought to resemble a point where they start gaining moral worth, but not a point where they immediately have it.

                          Of course, this is all very speculative, vibes-based and handwavey. I don't know how to define someone's moral worth -- which is precisely why I don't see why birth is special to one's moral worth.

                          F This user is from outside of this forum
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                          wrote on last edited by
                          #297

                          Fair enough. I think you're right to question these things; people have very strong opinions with hard lines here, but I don't think there's always solid reasoning for why some things that may seem like an obvious hard line are considered one.

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                          • P [email protected]

                            Lessee... I suppose my hottest take is that no lives are sacred. I believe that human expansion into more 'wild' domains is a mistake and that national and state parks' availability should be limited (geographically - you may not venture into the Deep Parks). This probably borders on some vaguely eco-fascy beliefs, and I recognize human's inexorable curiousity and desire to explore, but you will never find me mourning a human victim of a wild animal.

                            gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                            gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
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                            wrote on last edited by
                            #298

                            Does that also apply to hypothetical martian settlements?
                            If people ever technically managed to live on mars.

                            There's definitely no higher life on mars (or we would have already found it), and it's also unlikely that there's any life at all - not even microbial life (due to an absence of liquid water on the surface).

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                            • T [email protected]

                              We should try harder to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals, sometimes taxation is necessary and sometimes it's beneficial even if we don't factor in revenue, people will sometimes make decisions that are so bad that we have a moral obligation to intervene in order to protect them from the most disastrous outcomes

                              gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                              gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
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                              wrote on last edited by
                              #299

                              people will sometimes make decisions that are so bad that we have a moral obligation to intervene in order to protect them from the most disastrous outcomes

                              in archaic times, due to the primordial habit of turning people into slaves if they couldn't repay their debts, people were legally forbidden from going into debt at all, except if they could prove that they were a reasonable person and it was economically likely that they could pay back the debt. that was in order to prevent them from the bad fates of slaves; which makes sense to me.

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                              • K [email protected]

                                Immigration is universally a roaring net positive in all of history ; economically, socially, everything. It's more than disinformation when they spew talking points. It's hate. And most people complicit are just fully ignorant. USA lost their empire due to lack of education. Every other first world nations have their success in lockstep with the level of education they give their kids. A heist of all wealth has been conducted and you are viewing the aftermath. Elon will find your coffers empty. The real treasure, turns out, was the people.

                                gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
                                gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.deG This user is from outside of this forum
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                                wrote on last edited by
                                #300

                                counterpoint:

                                the labor market is a market, and as such regulated by the rule of Supply and demand. That implies: if the supply is increased, then the price is decreased. If the supply is decreased, then the price is increased.

                                In the context of the labor market, that means:
                                If there's fewer workers in the country (which comes naturally with a smaller population), then the price for labor (a.k.a. wages) goes higher. That increases the Quality Of Life for the people, and is therefore a socially good thing.

                                W dawnglider@lemmy.mlD 2 Replies Last reply
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                                • J [email protected]

                                  Just wanted to prove that political diversity ain't dead. Remember, don't downvote for disagreements.

                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
                                  R This user is from outside of this forum
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                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #301

                                  I am progressive as heck, but wow the Republicans fixed the DMV here by running it like a business. Not every part of government is amenable to that (which is where they go wrong) but some departments really can.

                                  Also I am pro choice very much so, but personally wouldn't have, and didn't have, any abortion, I don't like it, find it horrifying. Like, my personal choice was hell no. I understand that the consequences of prohibiting abortion are much, much more damaging than allowing them, and do also think the existing woman has more rights than the potential person so maybe that isn't a political difference.

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                                  • ragdoll_x@sh.itjust.worksR [email protected]

                                    I don't like racism against white people or sexism against men. Do I think they're less urgent or worrying than bigotry directed at other groups? Sure. There's less hate against men and whites compared to other demographic groups, and bigotry against them simply doesn't have the same social or political impact due to current systemic racism and sexism being directed at other groups. But bigotry is still bigotry, and I don't like bigotry against anyone.

                                    J This user is from outside of this forum
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                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #302

                                    I think it's important to differentiate systemic racism from bigotry. There are some people who have a definition of "racism" that actually means "systemic racism," and they make a more compelling case that "racism against white people" doesn't exist.

                                    I'm of the opinion that systemic racism against white people is pretty rare, but you can find it in niche communities, not as much society as a whole. I also think of systemic racism as being about inequity rather than inequality; but if you were to consider it as being about inequality instead of inequity, then you could make a case that e.g. affirmative action is systemic racism against white people.

                                    A lot of this is semantics, which is a distraction from real problem solving.

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                                    • R [email protected]

                                      I am progressive as heck, but wow the Republicans fixed the DMV here by running it like a business. Not every part of government is amenable to that (which is where they go wrong) but some departments really can.

                                      Also I am pro choice very much so, but personally wouldn't have, and didn't have, any abortion, I don't like it, find it horrifying. Like, my personal choice was hell no. I understand that the consequences of prohibiting abortion are much, much more damaging than allowing them, and do also think the existing woman has more rights than the potential person so maybe that isn't a political difference.

                                      J This user is from outside of this forum
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                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #303

                                      Transgender people in many states are probably not happy about the DMV. (I'm Canadian and cis so I may not understand this much.)

                                      R 1 Reply Last reply
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                                      • F [email protected]

                                        I've been thinking of starting some sort of group to help with that goal-- would you be interested? I'm not sure what we could do, but I want to do something, you know? I figure the best impact I can have is to convince other people that I mostly agree with to adopt this approach, which is what I envision the group could help with.

                                        J This user is from outside of this forum
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                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #304

                                        DM me. 🙂

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                                        • J [email protected]

                                          The overwhelming majority of leftists I know used to be centrists at some point in their lives. Also, I'm really astonished that you openly admit that you use the word "settler" specifically to be antagonizing. I kind of thought that was the bailey, not the motte.

                                          T This user is from outside of this forum
                                          T This user is from outside of this forum
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                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #305

                                          Given that you don't organize, how many leftists do you know? The people I know ran quite the gamut before winding up coherently left.

                                          I don't know why you'd be astonished at the term being used dismissively. Generally it's when someone is being white supremacist, racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, xenophobic, etc. They may not even realize it at first because it's normalized for them, but when they respond negatively to correction well guess who's digging in their heels about being shitty. That's exactly who you don't want to cater to. They will eat up all of your time and fight you the whole time because they have not developed basic humility.

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