So proud!
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That wasn't my point at all. A lot you are good at jumping to conclusions based on not a lot of information instead of asking clarifying questions.
I am saying gender roles are cooked for both men and women because they say a lot of shit that doesn't make sense. Like the idea that men are always more logical and women are always better parents. Even the thing about colours and skirts don't make sense. If anything skirts are better for male anatomy than trousers are. Gender norms and heteronormativity make no sense. They as concepts are cooked. It's lead to lots of dumb laws and injustice on all sides.
If you had just said gender norms are cooked, I would have responded differently. You narrowed this to gender in western society is cooked. There is no other society where there aren't bullshit gender roles, and when gender is brought up in a west vs non-west context it is almost always done by people who conclude that gender is bad in the west, but not in other places where more "traditional" ideals about gender are still more highly enforced, like asia, russia, eastern europe, africa, etc.
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If you had just said gender norms are cooked, I would have responded differently. You narrowed this to gender in western society is cooked. There is no other society where there aren't bullshit gender roles, and when gender is brought up in a west vs non-west context it is almost always done by people who conclude that gender is bad in the west, but not in other places where more "traditional" ideals about gender are still more highly enforced, like asia, russia, eastern europe, africa, etc.
wrote last edited by [email protected]Sure there are many other societies where gender is also thoroughly and completely cooked to higher levels than it is in say UK, USA, or so on such as Saudi Arabia but it's a very broad generalisation to say it's cooked everywhere. There have been and are matriarchal societies even that have very different norms than we do. Not all societies are heteronormative either. I don't know all the societies in the world. I am pushing it to even say all western societies are cooked.
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Sure there are many other societies where gender is also thoroughly and completely cooked to higher levels than it is in say UK, USA, or so on such as Saudi Arabia but it's a very broad generalisation to say it's cooked everywhere. There have been and are matriarchal societies even that have very different norms than we do. Not all societies are heteronormative either. I don't know all the societies in the world. I am pushing it to even say all western societies are cooked.
I guess my point is, the idea of roles based on gender, in and of its self, is BS
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I guess my point is, the idea of roles based on gender, in and of its self, is BS
Hmm. I think there are some things where they are necessary for biological reasons. Like males having increased upper body strength, or females dealing with birth, period pains, etc where some things can only be done by one physical sex or one needs more understanding of certain things. Other than that though your pretty much spot on. Plus sex and gender aren't exactly the same thing anyway as I am sure someone will point out.
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Hmm. I think there are some things where they are necessary for biological reasons. Like males having increased upper body strength, or females dealing with birth, period pains, etc where some things can only be done by one physical sex or one needs more understanding of certain things. Other than that though your pretty much spot on. Plus sex and gender aren't exactly the same thing anyway as I am sure someone will point out.
I mean those are on a person by person basis as well. I know women who are physically stronger than most of the men I know, and would be more fit for harder labor than most of them. Women who don't have the ability to have children, or periods, etc. It is best we assess things based on individual capacity, or merit, or whatever, rather than write rules that are completely exclusive to an entire group of people based on broad statistics.
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I mean those are on a person by person basis as well. I know women who are physically stronger than most of the men I know, and would be more fit for harder labor than most of them. Women who don't have the ability to have children, or periods, etc. It is best we assess things based on individual capacity, or merit, or whatever, rather than write rules that are completely exclusive to an entire group of people based on broad statistics.
No biological male can have periods or bear children. I think that's fairly straight forward. Strength is a spectrum though I agree.
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Female. Why i take pics the way i do.
I am there and the pic is proof. A pic without my partner, family,friend i can find online or on a postcard to. An animal is also fine.As a male, my EXIF data proves I was there
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No biological male can have periods or bear children. I think that's fairly straight forward. Strength is a spectrum though I agree.
wrote last edited by [email protected]i didnt say they could, I said not all biological women can, this is the assumption made by people that causes issues. The other are transmen who find themselves without proper sanitary supplies due to assumptions based on being see as the gender they transitioned to.
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I’m asking people here that are comfortable using a sexist term why that is, no paper is going to tell me that.
This wasn't what you asked, initially, you are moving the goalposts, because a slur is a pejorative doesn't mean a pejorative has to be a slur, slurs are also considered swear words, are all swear words slurs, and no I didn't say something has to have a history of bigotry to simply be offensive, I said that in order for mansplaining to be comparable to the n word it has to carry that weight.
Goalpost shifting, lying about what you originally asked, false equivalence, and so on. You asked why people thought mansplaining wasn't sexist originally, pointed you to papers on that, you insisted random people instead tell you why, then you moved course to saying that there being negative connotations in a term, it is bigoted, now you claim the question was why people are comfortable using the phrase, which it wasn't.
Have fun being determined to not seek professional information on the use of mansplaining and why, while it may be a mean things to say, it isn't misandry.
That's the same question the whole time, you're trying to move goalposts if anything. You should use a thesaurus pejorative and slur are synonyms. No one said they're the same I said their both bigoted and they are.
You can quote the original question back and you'll find it to be the same and we both know it.
Have fun refusing to accept using sexist terms is sexist.
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I'd love to know how seeking clarification implies your my or anyone else's ability to say what they want. I know I haven't said or knows that at worst all I want is to know how making assumptions based on sex isn't bigoted. I get how condescending to someone because they are a woman is bigoted, can you see how assuming someone is a bigot rather than ignorant based solely on their sex is by definition bigoted?
Max comment depth reached. Bringing this back up to where it was first relevant:
It’s by definition discriminatory because it’s a statement of discrimination no one said anything about it being abusive. It’s not just not necessarily derogatory whereas mansplaining always is.
To call a behavior "misogynistic" is to express a low opinion of it, or detract from the character of the person exhibiting that behavior.
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Max comment depth reached. Bringing this back up to where it was first relevant:
It’s by definition discriminatory because it’s a statement of discrimination no one said anything about it being abusive. It’s not just not necessarily derogatory whereas mansplaining always is.
To call a behavior "misogynistic" is to express a low opinion of it, or detract from the character of the person exhibiting that behavior.
Ok?
No. Look at the definition.
feeling, showing, or characterized by hatred of or prejudice against women : of, relating to, or being a misogynist
Context implies at times a low opinion though that is not express to the meaning nor does it imply the word is derogatory.
Discriminatory ≠ derogatory.
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Ok?
No. Look at the definition.
feeling, showing, or characterized by hatred of or prejudice against women : of, relating to, or being a misogynist
Context implies at times a low opinion though that is not express to the meaning nor does it imply the word is derogatory.
Discriminatory ≠ derogatory.
Context implies at times a low opinion
I can't think of a single example of a time where a woman would be assessing a man's behavior towards her, deem it to be misogynistic, but not as a low opinion.
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Context implies at times a low opinion
I can't think of a single example of a time where a woman would be assessing a man's behavior towards her, deem it to be misogynistic, but not as a low opinion.
Sure, now is that the only way to use that descriptor? No.
Can you find a way to use "mansplaining" that isn't using the term derogatorily? No because it's an insult that happens to be a descriptor while misandrist or misogynist are descriptors that can be insults.
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Sure, now is that the only way to use that descriptor? No.
Can you find a way to use "mansplaining" that isn't using the term derogatorily? No because it's an insult that happens to be a descriptor while misandrist or misogynist are descriptors that can be insults.
Sure, now is that the only way to use that descriptor? No.
Can you think of an example?
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Sure, now is that the only way to use that descriptor? No.
Can you think of an example?
An example of what using the phrase misogynistic without it being derogatory or your weird little setup?
My entire point is you cannot use mansplaining without it being an insult thusly it's a sexist slur.
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An example of what using the phrase misogynistic without it being derogatory or your weird little setup?
My entire point is you cannot use mansplaining without it being an insult thusly it's a sexist slur.
An example of what using the phrase misogynistic without it being derogatory
Yes.
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An example of what using the phrase misogynistic without it being derogatory
Yes.
Literally any academic paper on the matter where they use it as a descriptor, or I dunno the dictionary examples I've already provided that use it again as a descriptor. The reader adds bias, no one can help that but the insult isn't intended.
Misogyny has been widely practised for thousands of years. It is reflected in art, literature, human societal structure, historical events, mythology, philosophy, and religion worldwide.
These comments attempt to cut much deeper, striking women at what misogynists see as their most valuable characteristics: appearance, sexual purity, sweetness and submissiveness.
That scrutiny intensified in March, when a university task force released a report that called out the clubs for fostering a misogynistic culture that contributed to the problem of sexual assault.
In all cases there is no explicit insult it's left to context and the readers perception.
Can you do the same with mansplaining? I'd say no.
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Literally any academic paper on the matter where they use it as a descriptor, or I dunno the dictionary examples I've already provided that use it again as a descriptor. The reader adds bias, no one can help that but the insult isn't intended.
Misogyny has been widely practised for thousands of years. It is reflected in art, literature, human societal structure, historical events, mythology, philosophy, and religion worldwide.
These comments attempt to cut much deeper, striking women at what misogynists see as their most valuable characteristics: appearance, sexual purity, sweetness and submissiveness.
That scrutiny intensified in March, when a university task force released a report that called out the clubs for fostering a misogynistic culture that contributed to the problem of sexual assault.
In all cases there is no explicit insult it's left to context and the readers perception.
Can you do the same with mansplaining? I'd say no.
Can you do the same with mansplaining? I’d say no.
Literally the usage in this quoted text. Unless you're saying that you're bigoted for using it in that context.
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Can you do the same with mansplaining? I’d say no.
Literally the usage in this quoted text. Unless you're saying that you're bigoted for using it in that context.
You don't think I in intended the term to be an insult in that context? I'd say you're wrong and you haven't been listening.
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You don't think I in intended the term to be an insult in that context? I'd say you're wrong and you haven't been listening.
So then you just need to look inward to see why you're comfortable using a word that makes you bigoted, and you'll have your answer.