What's the best way of dealing with Maga hatred, white power, genocide denial and other things you see a Lemmy user espousing?
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Looking back, I didn't realize what I said could have been misinterpreted, if one isolated it from the next paragraphs. Sorry for the snappy response.
[conservatives] are un-desired…ala undesirable.No, their politics are unwanted. That’s a huge difference, it’s absurd to treat them as equal.
To clarify, and as discussed in that following paragraphs, I'm saying it's absurd to treat someone's politics being unwanted as equal to someone themselves being considered unwanted.
What I found so controversial was that your post misframed my position as if I thought people should be treated differently simply because their politics are different. That's not true. My politics are different to a M-L's, and to an anarchist, and I get along alright with them. No, my problem isn't that people have different ideas, my problem is that bigots and the like (many call themselves 'conservatives') aim to have innocent people oppressed and killed through their political beliefs and actions. Politics isn't some civil abstract philosophical discussion. Politics isn't distinct from material reality. It's not harmless and innocent to just have a political position. When a neo-Nazi org tries to spread their propaganda in public (yes, there are people in my city who try this. and yes, I mean "quotes the NSDAP and means it" neo-Nazi), they aren't simply just expressing an idea, this isn't some isolated discussion in a vacuum, they're attempting to build a political movement that promises to get my friends, co-workers, and a whole bunch of my community killed just for how they were born. And we have a duty to protect the people we care about from being killed by fascists.
So when we "ban" that Nazi from feeling safe to express those politics in public, it's not because we're 'triggered' that they dared to have different politics, we're responding appropriately to a credible, albeit not imminent, threat. Same with the non-nazi bigotry regularly seen among self-proclaimed "conservatives", it's people trying to make others excluded from society based on how they were born. That's a threat to our safety.
So, again, like I said before, it's absurd to equivocate people being banned for posting bigotry and reactionary ideologies, to people being considered "an undesirable", a subhuman.
Now image a republican saying that about democrats. Imagine your outrage. LMAO
I couldn't care less - I hope Biden and Kamala get shot alongside Trump and Vance. ¯_ (ツ)_/¯
See, [...] not every republican is a Nazi.
Obviously. The US electoral system is undemocratic garbage and which party people identify with isn't an indication of their political worldview - the Democrats are repulsive and harmful to the social justice movements they pretend to campaign for, I can't blame anyone for opposing them. There is no good or even adequate option until you get into the minor parties, who most probably don't know much about.
But, the party leadership has plenty of people who, for all intents and purposes, mirror the policies and tactics of the NSDAP circa 1933. They even managed to get the ultranationalism started (see Canada, Greenland). Nazi is an appropriate label for them, including Trump and Musk, to be clear.
If one wants to say all the supporters and footsoldiers aren't Nazis because they're too ignorant to understand what they're supporting or think it's the lesser evil, I say it's pointless semantics. The minority of Germans who voted for the NSDAP pre-takeover are known to history as Nazis. The Wehrmacht who "fought for their country" instead of fighting their government are known to history as "Nazi soldiers". Complicity is not innocent, people were hanged for "just following orders". So, if you're not a Nazi (and I don't think you are one) you're going to have to make your actions speak.
To be honest, I don't take any politics very seriously. I realize that Lemmy has a more tech slant that attracts peoples who's brains work, um, a little different. And more on here are apt to get fixated on something.
But i'm not one of those. So many here make politics their entire identity. I don't.
It's fun to discuss here and there. But my real life is just about fucking women, chilling with friends, fucking around with AI stuff and enjoying life.
I think Lemmy takes politics WAY too seriously and way too personally.
Most politicians suck. Most aren't really looking out for us. So I just do my own thing.
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To be honest, I don't take any politics very seriously. I realize that Lemmy has a more tech slant that attracts peoples who's brains work, um, a little different. And more on here are apt to get fixated on something.
But i'm not one of those. So many here make politics their entire identity. I don't.
It's fun to discuss here and there. But my real life is just about fucking women, chilling with friends, fucking around with AI stuff and enjoying life.
I think Lemmy takes politics WAY too seriously and way too personally.
Most politicians suck. Most aren't really looking out for us. So I just do my own thing.
I think Lemmy takes politics WAY too seriously and way too personally.
But, you must understand, to many people politics is very personal, whether they like it or not.
You are very lucky to be able to do your own thing, to have the privilege of politics being fun and not very serious. But to millions of people, this is, literally, a life and death matter.
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System shared this topic
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I think Lemmy takes politics WAY too seriously and way too personally.
But, you must understand, to many people politics is very personal, whether they like it or not.
You are very lucky to be able to do your own thing, to have the privilege of politics being fun and not very serious. But to millions of people, this is, literally, a life and death matter.
And there you are, a perfect example. Taking politics way too personally and seriously. How is it a life and death matter for someone here in the US? It's not legal anywhere to cause death for any reason. (Not counting us prison system)
What people are at risk of death because of politics here in the US?
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And there you are, a perfect example. Taking politics way too personally and seriously. How is it a life and death matter for someone here in the US? It's not legal anywhere to cause death for any reason. (Not counting us prison system)
What people are at risk of death because of politics here in the US?
@DonaldJMusk @comfy Well, there are just things that are worse than death, aren't there?
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@DonaldJMusk @comfy Well, there are just things that are worse than death, aren't there?
Well, there are just things that are worse than death, aren’t there?
Lately, it's reading Lemmy comments. The ultimate punishment.
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And there you are, a perfect example. Taking politics way too personally and seriously. How is it a life and death matter for someone here in the US? It's not legal anywhere to cause death for any reason. (Not counting us prison system)
What people are at risk of death because of politics here in the US?
where, by law, no politician has the power to arbitrarily sentence people to death.
What does that have to do with anything? Politics isn't just elected politicians, it's not some entity distinct from society and the economy.
Politics is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations among individuals, such as the distribution of status or resources ^[wikipedia]^
In my country, the construction union forces their employers to follow safety procedures on site which the government does not legally enforce. Deaths of these construction workers due to workplace accidents has dropped because of workers using their political power as a trade union, while the government (due to pressure from construction employers) aims to dilute this power. In your country, unions have gradually lost a lot of their historic power and the rate of fatal workplace accidents is around double or more than most European countries, and close to that of Russia and Thailand. Workplace health and safety policy is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
In both our countries, there is a housing crisis which threatens more and more people and families with homelessness. This has huge impacts on their ability to work and even survive. Government policy impacts affordability of property, how much residential property is being built, the affordability of basic needs (like food and utilities), how much employers must pay for jobs, the rights of landlords and tenants (e.g. here there is an upper limit to how much a landlord can increase prices per month), social support to homeless people or those seeking work, and the legal concerns of homelessness (e.g. anti-camping laws, jail time for seeking shelter in vehicles, food disposal policy that promotes starvation). More and more people are dying because of homelessness and its effects. Housing policy is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
Political policy in the US has infamously enabled widespread, normalized police brutality. This especially (but not exclusively!) affects minorities such as black peoples, queer people and autistic people, regularly and consistently leading to deaths from shooting, unjustified physical assault and sadistic negligence while imprisoned. Law enforcement policy is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
The 9/11 attacks killed thousands of innocent civilians. That was politics, al-Qaeda is a political organization who were responding to the direct results of US foreign policy. Hundreds of thousands more were killed overseas in the US "War on Terror", but even for its own domestic citizens, international geopolitics is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
Those are just a few example across a range of well-known political topics, not even getting into more indirect aspects like deciding where government funding goes to (e.g. heart disease research - heart disease being the single biggest cause of death), and not even diving into non-government political organizing. Politics includes the more extreme anti-abortion activists working to make even life-saving abortions illegal. Politics includes insane mass shooters targeting minority groups. Politics includes the assassination of Brian Thompson.
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where, by law, no politician has the power to arbitrarily sentence people to death.
What does that have to do with anything? Politics isn't just elected politicians, it's not some entity distinct from society and the economy.
Politics is the set of activities that are associated with making decisions in groups, or other forms of power relations among individuals, such as the distribution of status or resources ^[wikipedia]^
In my country, the construction union forces their employers to follow safety procedures on site which the government does not legally enforce. Deaths of these construction workers due to workplace accidents has dropped because of workers using their political power as a trade union, while the government (due to pressure from construction employers) aims to dilute this power. In your country, unions have gradually lost a lot of their historic power and the rate of fatal workplace accidents is around double or more than most European countries, and close to that of Russia and Thailand. Workplace health and safety policy is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
In both our countries, there is a housing crisis which threatens more and more people and families with homelessness. This has huge impacts on their ability to work and even survive. Government policy impacts affordability of property, how much residential property is being built, the affordability of basic needs (like food and utilities), how much employers must pay for jobs, the rights of landlords and tenants (e.g. here there is an upper limit to how much a landlord can increase prices per month), social support to homeless people or those seeking work, and the legal concerns of homelessness (e.g. anti-camping laws, jail time for seeking shelter in vehicles, food disposal policy that promotes starvation). More and more people are dying because of homelessness and its effects. Housing policy is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
Political policy in the US has infamously enabled widespread, normalized police brutality. This especially (but not exclusively!) affects minorities such as black peoples, queer people and autistic people, regularly and consistently leading to deaths from shooting, unjustified physical assault and sadistic negligence while imprisoned. Law enforcement policy is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
The 9/11 attacks killed thousands of innocent civilians. That was politics, al-Qaeda is a political organization who were responding to the direct results of US foreign policy. Hundreds of thousands more were killed overseas in the US "War on Terror", but even for its own domestic citizens, international geopolitics is, literally, life and death politics for many people.
Those are just a few example across a range of well-known political topics, not even getting into more indirect aspects like deciding where government funding goes to (e.g. heart disease research - heart disease being the single biggest cause of death), and not even diving into non-government political organizing. Politics includes the more extreme anti-abortion activists working to make even life-saving abortions illegal. Politics includes insane mass shooters targeting minority groups. Politics includes the assassination of Brian Thompson.
In my country,
So you are arguing with me about US politics, and you aren't even in the US?! There's more to us that you see in the news.
This conversation is over. You don't even live here, bro! lol
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Well, there are just things that are worse than death, aren’t there?
Lately, it's reading Lemmy comments. The ultimate punishment.
No one is forcing you.
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Good for you! I haven't come across any Nazis here yet. Thanks for the warning.
There's certainly a few who support fascists with fascist policies, and people who also support dictatorship.
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There's certainly a few who support fascists with fascist policies, and people who also support dictatorship.
I haven't seen any.
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No one is forcing you.
No one said I was being forced.
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I haven't seen any.
Quick question, who did you name yourself after? If you're American, did you vote for trump?
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Quick question, who did you name yourself after? If you're American, did you vote for trump?
Nah, this isn't about me. I prefer to stay private about stuff like that. Thanks for trying, tho!
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Nah, this isn't about me. I prefer to stay private about stuff like that. Thanks for trying, tho!
Well that's absolutely fair but people who support trump, support fascist dictators. So there's your answer! I've seen some people on here who support trump, so they are supporting his fascist and dictatorial policies. That should clear things up for you!
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Well that's absolutely fair but people who support trump, support fascist dictators. So there's your answer! I've seen some people on here who support trump, so they are supporting his fascist and dictatorial policies. That should clear things up for you!
That’s a lazy guilt-by-association fallacy. Supporting a politician doesn't mean endorsing every extreme label slapped on them. If Trump were a fascist dictator, he wouldn’t have lost an election, left office, or faced multiple legal challenges from independent courts.
Fascism also requires suppression of free speech, yet his critics dominate every major media and social platform including this one, Lemmy.
Just because you dislike someone doesn’t make them a fascist. That’s emotion, not logic.
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That’s a lazy guilt-by-association fallacy. Supporting a politician doesn't mean endorsing every extreme label slapped on them. If Trump were a fascist dictator, he wouldn’t have lost an election, left office, or faced multiple legal challenges from independent courts.
Fascism also requires suppression of free speech, yet his critics dominate every major media and social platform including this one, Lemmy.
Just because you dislike someone doesn’t make them a fascist. That’s emotion, not logic.
No its not.
It's not endorsing him based on labels its his fascist dictatorial actions that make him a fascist dictator.
You're right about Suppression of free speech, that's why he wanting to deport people who criticism him glad we agree he is against free speech.
I'm not calling him a fascist because I disagree or dislike him I am calling him one because he is. It's logical. Fawning over and defending him is emotional, and lacking logic.
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No its not.
It's not endorsing him based on labels its his fascist dictatorial actions that make him a fascist dictator.
You're right about Suppression of free speech, that's why he wanting to deport people who criticism him glad we agree he is against free speech.
I'm not calling him a fascist because I disagree or dislike him I am calling him one because he is. It's logical. Fawning over and defending him is emotional, and lacking logic.
Wanting something and doing it are not the same. Trump did not deport anyone for criticizing him, and the First Amendment is still fully in place.
If he were truly a fascist dictator, he would have dissolved Congress, taken control of the courts, and jailed opposition leaders. Which never happened.
Labeling someone a fascist just because you interpret their rhetoric in the worst possible light is not logic, it’s bias disguised as argument.
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Wanting something and doing it are not the same. Trump did not deport anyone for criticizing him, and the First Amendment is still fully in place.
If he were truly a fascist dictator, he would have dissolved Congress, taken control of the courts, and jailed opposition leaders. Which never happened.
Labeling someone a fascist just because you interpret their rhetoric in the worst possible light is not logic, it’s bias disguised as argument.
Except for banning AP at press events disputes a judge ruling they are allowed to be there? Funny 1st amendment being upheld. Or using cops to force their way through protestors for an photo op? Free speech wasn't upheld there.
If he were truly a fascist dictator, he would have dissolved Congress, taken control of the courts, and jailed opposition leaders. Which never happened.
All false none of that needs to happen for him to be a dictator, when all the gop cronies are aligned with him.
Labeling someone a fascist just because you interpret their rhetoric in the worst possible light is not logic, it’s bias disguised as argument.
How do you interpret that you won't need to vote again? Or the home grows are next, or ignoring the judiciary as anything worse than the worst possible light? It's only logical that these are the facts, and it's not bias. Bias is ignoring, or defend these truths by plugging your ears.
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Except for banning AP at press events disputes a judge ruling they are allowed to be there? Funny 1st amendment being upheld. Or using cops to force their way through protestors for an photo op? Free speech wasn't upheld there.
If he were truly a fascist dictator, he would have dissolved Congress, taken control of the courts, and jailed opposition leaders. Which never happened.
All false none of that needs to happen for him to be a dictator, when all the gop cronies are aligned with him.
Labeling someone a fascist just because you interpret their rhetoric in the worst possible light is not logic, it’s bias disguised as argument.
How do you interpret that you won't need to vote again? Or the home grows are next, or ignoring the judiciary as anything worse than the worst possible light? It's only logical that these are the facts, and it's not bias. Bias is ignoring, or defend these truths by plugging your ears.
Your argument relies on selective incidents and misinterpretations, lacking the comprehensive evidence needed to label Trump a fascist dictator.
The claim that Trump used police to clear protesters for a photo op at St. John's Church has been scrutinized. A U.S. watchdog found that the decision to clear the area was made to install fencing, not for the photo opportunity.
How do you interpret that you won’t need to vote again?
Please show me proof that we won't be able to vote again.Or the home grows are next,
Drugs suck. Including weed lol
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Your argument relies on selective incidents and misinterpretations, lacking the comprehensive evidence needed to label Trump a fascist dictator.
The claim that Trump used police to clear protesters for a photo op at St. John's Church has been scrutinized. A U.S. watchdog found that the decision to clear the area was made to install fencing, not for the photo opportunity.
How do you interpret that you won’t need to vote again?
Please show me proof that we won't be able to vote again.Or the home grows are next,
Drugs suck. Including weed lol
Your argument relies on selective incidents
Duh?
misinterpretations, lacking the comprehensive evidence needed to label Trump a fascist dictator.
Lol, no, making excuses for this shit heel requires super gold level mental gymnastics.
The claim that Trump used police to clear protesters for a photo op at St. John's Church has been scrutinized. A U.S. watchdog found that the decision to clear the area was made to install fencing, not for the photo opportunity.
Sure thing. Why was he surrounded by guards for a clear photo op hahaha.
Please show me proof that we won't be able to vote again
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/vote-four-years/
He literally said it.
Drugs suck. Including weed lol
I don't care for drugs, but he's talking about deporting us citizens.
Cope as you like.
