'Admit you're Hamas or we'll send a drone to kill your family'
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Germany does not have the right to exist. The German people have a right to self determination, like any people in the world does. This right is not tied to any specific state.
It is also completely absurd to define such rights to a specific state. Any specific state needs a specific government, a specific territory and a specific people. The only thing that carried over from the Nazi era was the people. A different government was formed on a very different territory. If you claim "Germany has a right to exist" in connection with the Nazi Reich, that Germany would have to include large swaths of what is todays Poland and Czech Republic.
Meanwhile there was no Israel in 1947. There was no Israeli people in 1947. The entire people is a construct, that only started to become a reality through 80 years of ethnic cleansing and genocide against the Palestinian people. Now that they are a people is a reality. That this people thus has the right to form a fascist state and deny the rights to the people who they have uprooted is nonsense.
If the US was to invade Canada, drive the Canadians north of the arctic circle and then claim this is US-Canada now because the filled it with millions of their own settlers, that does not create a "right to exist" for US-Canada.
Theoretically, of course I agree with you.
But saying an existing country has no right to exist, while discussing the very real problems of said country, while said country does, in fact, exist, is treading on incredibly dangerous, straight up genocidal ground.
How can you guys not see the problems inherent in that, while half of the people are arguing against the existence of fucking nuance? You all can’t be that dense.
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Theoretically, of course I agree with you.
But saying an existing country has no right to exist, while discussing the very real problems of said country, while said country does, in fact, exist, is treading on incredibly dangerous, straight up genocidal ground.
How can you guys not see the problems inherent in that, while half of the people are arguing against the existence of fucking nuance? You all can’t be that dense.
while said country does, in fact, exist
Irrelevant in whether or not it has the right to do so
straight up genocidal ground
Don't be an idiot, it's nowhere near the same thing
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I do. I'm saying I'm surprised I don't see more. It happens with spaces on the left all the time too.
It's crazy how in the last ten years we have allowed moderation to drive us into separate corners. A time out was maybe a good idea. But we should still be working to merge back into a single Internet.
And fuck off with the 'they're are all Nazis' shit. That's the same bullshit that made MAGA go off the rails.
I know on Reddit that r/conservative had a bit of a meltdown because their users started having honest takes like "people should be held accountable for Intel leak"
They have this term "my fellow conservatives" that was clearly bots trying to suppress anyone from voicing dissent. Surprisingly lots of down votes for it. Just saying maybe there's a middle ground more than people think.
And fuck off with the 'they're are all Nazis' shit
Nah. They're sitting at the Nazi table, until they willingly walk away: they're Nazis. If they don't like hearing it they can off themselves or leave the Nazi table, either one is fine
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And fuck off with the 'they're are all Nazis' shit
Nah. They're sitting at the Nazi table, until they willingly walk away: they're Nazis. If they don't like hearing it they can off themselves or leave the Nazi table, either one is fine
They can't really leave the nazi table if there isn't a Nazi table any more than you can't leave the table of Maoist. Ukraine is a great example with Azov. Are Ukrainians fighting for their country Nazis because of the Azov brigade?
How do you parse the logic? It seems problematic to decide that a vast majority of a population are something based off a minority within it.
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Theoretically, of course I agree with you.
But saying an existing country has no right to exist, while discussing the very real problems of said country, while said country does, in fact, exist, is treading on incredibly dangerous, straight up genocidal ground.
How can you guys not see the problems inherent in that, while half of the people are arguing against the existence of fucking nuance? You all can’t be that dense.
The state does exist. The state is inherently built on crimes. Saying this state must cease to exist does not mean that the people should cease to exist.
Again taking Nazi Germany as an example. The German Reich ceased to exist. There is no Führer, no Reichschancellor, Reichsgovernment... Incidently there is a movement called "Reichsbürger" (citizens of the Reich) that proclaim the Federal Republic of Germany is a company and not a sovereign nation, so instead they claim the Reich to still exist. But it does not.
There was no genocide against Germans to make the Reich cease to exist and while there were ample use of strategies that by todays standards are war crimes against the Reich, the responsibility for starting the war laid with the Germans.
If we apply this to the state of Israel. Israel started to ethnically cleanse the area. Israel is inherently an Apartheid regime and the current state would never obey by international law, end the illegal occupation, give back stolen land, recompense the victims, punish the criminals and give equal rights to Palestinians living inside the internationally recognized borders of the state of Israel. The Israeli constitution itself says that Israel is a Jewish ethnostate, thus by the constitution Israel is a racist and criminal state in violation of international law.
You cannot reform this state like you couldn't reform the German Reich. The state and all of its institutions need to be rebuild from the ground up. And then in a way that grants equal rights and justice for all living between the river and the sea.
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You can't dismiss someone as a Nazi in this political climate. That's like turning your back on a leaky pipe.
On the contrary, associating with the Nazi party that is actively disappearing innocent people off the street is turning your back on liberty and justice.
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It's unclassy to reinterpretively paraphrase someone with a block quote like that.
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There is only one clear solution but people don’t like it, it’s the elimination of all Zionists by all means necessary
it's famous for shit libs who do not want to actually fix anything half assing solutions and those half assed solutions not working because one of the parties is a bad actor, who will only accept extermination.
and that is the solution. every zio needs to die. their children need to die. their pets need to die. that is the solution. that is how you open the possibility of peace.
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Except that the Nazi nation state no longer existed after World War two. It was dismantled and replaced with a new one, it wasn't even contiguous it was carved up and divvied out to allies who had different ideas about what the new state should look like. The Nazi state didn't have a right to exist, and neither does any nation state. They're just legal constructs and should be discarded when they are harmful.
This division was a mistake we undid ultimately and their is continuity between pre ww2 Germany, nazi Germany, and present day Germany is many or even most respects.
We punished its leaders and some of the worst criminals. We did not declare the state which included millions of people to simply not exist render its land to France and drive millions into the sea or extermination.
Its people have every right to remain.
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It didn't cease to exist nor were its people required to sonehow all flee to France
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This is yet another one of many examples that affirms the correct answer to "does israel have a right to exist?" is no. No nation has an inherent right to exist, but certainly a nation as horrible as israel should not exist for many reasons, including morally, just like how nazi germany has no right to exist.
That's some really fucked up thinking, on par with invading forces. You're essentially advocating for a genocide, including the masses of people in Israel who are constantly protesting against this war
Even I, a person who lives in East Europe, who has been affected by Russiay entire life, with Ukraine invasion to top it off, do not wish harm upon every single russian.
If you start thinking like them, then what makes you morally better?
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They can't really leave the nazi table if there isn't a Nazi table any more than you can't leave the table of Maoist. Ukraine is a great example with Azov. Are Ukrainians fighting for their country Nazis because of the Azov brigade?
How do you parse the logic? It seems problematic to decide that a vast majority of a population are something based off a minority within it.
if there's no actual Nazi table
So you're blind or stupid? If you think the Nazi table doesn't exist, let alone isn't literally in charge right now then it's one or the other
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That's some really fucked up thinking, on par with invading forces. You're essentially advocating for a genocide, including the masses of people in Israel who are constantly protesting against this war
Even I, a person who lives in East Europe, who has been affected by Russiay entire life, with Ukraine invasion to top it off, do not wish harm upon every single russian.
If you start thinking like them, then what makes you morally better?
He said Israel, not israelians. but it would either be another diaspora or their neighbors will take revenge and continue the cycle of hatred.
Which might be one of the objectives as well. "You can't let our people in the hands of the arabs, they are gonna kill us all in revenge for us killing them!". Ensure the israeli state exists because without it, their people die.
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while said country does, in fact, exist
Irrelevant in whether or not it has the right to do so
straight up genocidal ground
Don't be an idiot, it's nowhere near the same thing
If that’s what you think, extend the thought experiment. Say you get what you want, Israel stops existing tomorrow. What happens to everyone there?
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If that’s what you think, extend the thought experiment. Say you get what you want, Israel stops existing tomorrow. What happens to everyone there?
Say you get what you want, Israel stops existing tomorrow
Easy: that's not what I want
What happens to everyone there?
A different government rules over them
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It didn't cease to exist nor were its people required to sonehow all flee to France
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it's famous for shit libs who do not want to actually fix anything half assing solutions and those half assed solutions not working because one of the parties is a bad actor, who will only accept extermination.
and that is the solution. every zio needs to die. their children need to die. their pets need to die. that is the solution. that is how you open the possibility of peace.
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The children need to be reeducated as I will not cross that line (which makes me morally superior to every Zionist) but otherwise I agree.
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On the contrary, associating with the Nazi party that is actively disappearing innocent people off the street is turning your back on liberty and justice.
I never claimed the feds weren't Nazis. We're talking about pedophilia.
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it's famous for shit libs who do not want to actually fix anything half assing solutions and those half assed solutions not working because one of the parties is a bad actor, who will only accept extermination.
and that is the solution. every zio needs to die. their children need to die. their pets need to die. that is the solution. that is how you open the possibility of peace.
Genocide is not the answer. Assuming "zionist" includes "any jew living in Israel," I hope for humanity's sake that you are trolling.
