Friendly reminder that Tailscale is VC-funded and driving towards IPO
-
What's the benefit over just WG?
WG is worthless in a CGNAT environment... And as we are in 2025 and time doesn't stop it will be irrelevant for everyone someday, unless they fully support IPv6 (which I don't know if they do, if you can use WG in a CGNATED network with IPv6 I'd like to know though, I am very rusty setting it up, but it might worth checking it out).
-
Well not really but most people don’t like manually editing routing tables
You can do that? On ordinary, non-rooted Android?
-
Nice to hear your experience with Nebula. I considered it when I went with Tailscale years ago. Now you gotta migrate off of lemm.ee as it's shutting down soon.
Yep. It's on the TODO list...
-
Just looked at NetBird, it looks suspiciously similar to Tailscale in what it does except they also got an open-source control server. They have self-hosting doc right in their web site. Looks interesting. Can't find much about the company other than it's based in Berlin and it's currently private - Wiretrustee UG.
What's the difference with their open-source control server, from headscale? That it's officially published by the company?
-
I mainly use Tailscale (and Zerotier) to access my CGNATED LAN, headscale will require me to pay a subscription for a VPS wouldn't it?
I really envy the guys who say only use them because they're lazy to open ports or want a more secure approach, I use them because I NEED them lol.
If (when?) Tailscale enshitify I'll stick with ZT a bit until it goes the same way lol, I started using it 1st, I don't know if ZT came before Tailscale though.
Same. I mean, I was already looking to rent a VPS, but at least there's some time so I can save money until things get weird.
-
Tailscale is great. The principle concern to me is that your super easy mesh network depends on Tailscale so if they want it they have control, and if they change their pricing or options you depend on them, and though they can't see the data you send they can see the topology of your network and where all your computers/devices are.
I use Nebula, which is more work to set up and doesn't have some of the features, not
But if you slap the 'lighthouse' (administrating node) on a cheap VPS it works great. And it has some advantages. But Nebula also troubles me: though it's fully open source and fully in your control, the documentation isn't great. Instead, you can now get "managed nebula", which puts you in the same problem as Tailscale: the company sees and controls your network topology. I fear the company (Defined Networking) is trying to push things that way. Even their android app you can't fully configure unless you use their 'managed' service.For now, Nebula is great, and my preferred mesh network (I looked into all the main ones). And for Tailscale you can run the administration server yourself with Headscale and be fully in your control.
Actually I wish Tailscale the best as a profitable business. They've created a fantastic service and system. But for me, I'd rather my network be in my own hands and for my own eyes. And, as is OP's main point, once they have enough dependent users, the service might turn much worse.
Netbird seemed to go in a similar way, though still good. I want to try zrok next, looks interesting
-
if I setup Headscale on my network, I would have to open a port on my router to connect to it right?
The way I understand it is:
I would have to open a port on my router to connect to it right?
Yes
if I setup Headscale with some cloud provider, could they theoretically go and use the setup to get to my home network?
If they are able to authorize their own node to your Headscale server, then their node gets on your network.
If they take over the Headscale node, they might also be able to access your network, either by changing Headscale's config to auth another node or perhaps if the Headscale node is part of the network, which it might be, I don't recall. But I think that's immaterial. If someone takes over the Headscale machine, they can get on your network either way.So there has to be some trust between you and the cloud provider then. Thank you
-
::: spoiler spoiler
safsafsfsafs
:::So, I don't run the arr stack, or any of it''s components. In fact, I've never even test run Plex. However, I hear that Emby is a better replacement coupled with Symfonium to take the place of PlexAmp. That seems to be the 'next horse' everyone is switching to, even tho Emby does seem to have some unresolved issues.
I just find the constant grind against profitability and capitalism to be a bit worn. I guess you could say I am fully ensconced in capitalism as I run three tax paying, for profit businesses. The issues I take with capitalism is unbridled, uncontrolled greed...when we place profit over principal. By all means tho, make yo' paper son.
These are my opinions. There are many like them, but these ones are mine.
-
I do believe my experience in this regard is not representative of everyone, I probably failed to untick some checkbox (regarding communications) and the "too many ad emails" are a handful (in 3 months), which to me is a handful too much (having to untick a box should not be necessary)
That's cool. I don't like spam either. You are correct in that you should have to opt in instead of opt out.
-
Corporate VPN startup Tailscale secures $230 million CAD Series C on back of “surprising” growth
Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO).
“Tailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,” Pennarun said. “Meanwhile, we have an extremely efficient business model, rapid revenue acceleration, and a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed, which means we can weather all kinds of economic storms.”
Keep that in mind as you ponder whether and when to switch to self-hosting Headscale.
I'm unsure if it has been mentioned, but a similar tool which is open source (you can run the backend unlike tailscale), netbird
-
Same. I mean, I was already looking to rent a VPS, but at least there's some time so I can save money until things get weird.
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I can see value of getting a VPS, especially if you are gonna be using it for some other projects, I have had a DO instance in the past and I thinkered with WG back then BTW, but if it is only for remote accessing your home LAN, I don't feel like paying for it tbh, especially when some users get it for free (public IPv4) and it feels even dumber for me since I have a fully working IPv6 setup!
BTW my ISP is funny, no firewall at all with it, I almost fainted when I noticed everyone could access my self hosted services with the IPv6 address and I did nothing regarding ports or whatsoever... They were fully accessible once I fired up the projects! I think I read an article about this subject... But I can't recall when or where... I had to manually set up a firewall, which tbh, you always should do and it is especially easy to do in a Synology NAS.
Anyway, back to the mesh VPN part, if they enshitify so be it, but in the meantime we still can benefit from it.
-
Netbird seemed to go in a similar way, though still good. I want to try zrok next, looks interesting
Netbird you can still run unlike tailscale with headscale right?
At least hope the backend can be fully ran ?
-
Netbird you can still run unlike tailscale with headscale right?
At least hope the backend can be fully ran ?
Yes, and I think it's the full fat option as well
-
Tailscale offers way more then just wireguard. ACLs, NAT traversal etc. etc.
While some use cases can be replaced with traditional wireguard, others not.
I'm curious what kind of a use case you can think of that "traditional wireguard" can't replace tailscale for.
Tailscale has a maximum of 3 users on their free tier, so it seems like a super limited use case of people who DIY their own servers for Jellyfin or HomAssistant or whatever, but just a tad too lazy to setup their own Wireguard service in addition to whatever it is they'd be using it for... I think the vast majority of free tailscale users have simply never actually tried wg-easy , because if they did they wouldnt need to use a third party service.
-
So, even if Accel doesn't do that, which they haven't done that, they are still guilty of doing that. Ok, yeah. That's some solid irrefutable logic you got going there. I think I'll go back to arguing this with commenters who are a little less emotional and more grounded in real world points about the topic.
Not what I said. I in fact said the specific company doesn’t matter because all VC money seeks to make more money and the easiest way to do that is parasitically jacking up costs to customers every quarter no matter what until the company collapses. Then rinse and repeat, making money each time. Does this screw people over? Absolutely. Are there legal consequences? Nope, so they can do it as many times as they want, forever
-
Accessing your home network that is kept inside a NAT by your ISP, without you having to acquire an online server somewhere.
Except you do need to acquire an online server somewhere, its just one that tailscale owns and controls instead of you, and when tailscale decides to enshittify and kill of their free tier you'll be left wondering why you didn't just rent a cheap VPS sooner.
Ask yourself, what is tailscale getting out of those "free" users that makes it worth providing services to them that they'd otherwsie need to rent a VPS for? What do you think their response would be if for example they got pressured about maybe too many users on their network are running a certain video streaming app?
-
So, I don't run the arr stack, or any of it''s components. In fact, I've never even test run Plex. However, I hear that Emby is a better replacement coupled with Symfonium to take the place of PlexAmp. That seems to be the 'next horse' everyone is switching to, even tho Emby does seem to have some unresolved issues.
I just find the constant grind against profitability and capitalism to be a bit worn. I guess you could say I am fully ensconced in capitalism as I run three tax paying, for profit businesses. The issues I take with capitalism is unbridled, uncontrolled greed...when we place profit over principal. By all means tho, make yo' paper son.
These are my opinions. There are many like them, but these ones are mine.
wrote last edited by [email protected]If there's no one who can replace you with someone else, if you don't deliver profit growth that they expect, then there's a chance for you to apply principle over profit because it's up to you. Many if not most corporations however can and do replace corporate leadership that doesn't deliver profit growth with one that does. In these circumstances, leadership can rarely put principle over profit without being replaced. Many if not most of us see the direct effects of this process on our lives, working to get ever more of our incomes and health. This process hasn't stopped and hasn't slowed down. The opposite. This is why you're hearing us grinding against capitalism as we can see the system all around us grinding us down. This is why it's likely you'll keep hearing it and it's likely gonna get louder. I might not have your product in my home. If I do, I might be very happy with it because you're not trying to get as much money out of me as you can. However I am certain without checking that I have Unilever, Kraft, Nestle, PepsiCo, Google and so on, and I know they are. You probably do too and they're probably skinning you just as much. This is what capitalism is for us and we will grind against it because our standard of living is falling and it's not because of people like you. Small businesses have much more in common with us in this, than large corporations, or small corporations funded by large capital of different kinds. I'm an employee of a very large, well known American corporation that has strategically stopped making products that were objectively better for its customers but had lower margins, replacing them with much more expensive, higher margin ones. I'm not getting anything from the difference. Our major shareholders do.
-
I'm curious what kind of a use case you can think of that "traditional wireguard" can't replace tailscale for.
Tailscale has a maximum of 3 users on their free tier, so it seems like a super limited use case of people who DIY their own servers for Jellyfin or HomAssistant or whatever, but just a tad too lazy to setup their own Wireguard service in addition to whatever it is they'd be using it for... I think the vast majority of free tailscale users have simply never actually tried wg-easy , because if they did they wouldnt need to use a third party service.
Big difference in users and devices here. Tailscale might have a 3 user limit, but you can add up to 100 devices for free. So for me for example I have tailscale running in each and every docker container in my NAS. So each and every container can now act as a node on my tailnet. Users isn't a big deal, any one node can activate funnel with a simple command and poof its available to the public. The convenience coupled with simplicity is what makes Tailscale so god damn good.
-
Not what I said. I in fact said the specific company doesn’t matter because all VC money seeks to make more money and the easiest way to do that is parasitically jacking up costs to customers every quarter no matter what until the company collapses. Then rinse and repeat, making money each time. Does this screw people over? Absolutely. Are there legal consequences? Nope, so they can do it as many times as they want, forever
Is there an actual example you can provide of Accel doing that
So... if all VC money does, then you can provide an example of Accel doing this... right? So, go ahead and do that now.
-
Is there an actual example you can provide of Accel doing that
So... if all VC money does, then you can provide an example of Accel doing this... right? So, go ahead and do that now.
What you’re apparently not getting is that even if it’s not happening right now, it will in the end. What they happen to be doing or not doing right now doesn’t matter. Look at the rules of the system
