Friendly reminder that Tailscale is VC-funded and driving towards IPO
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I get your point, though Tailscale specifically crosses a line for me in this sense:
- Using code created/maintained by businesses: ok
- Relying in infrastructure maintained by businesses: not ok
I am not that big of an enthusiast, but the way I see it, if a company goes rogue and you're using their open source code, it's just a matter of forking it (I'm thinking about Emby/Jellyfin as an example)
If you rely on their infrastructure (such as Tailscale servers) then you are at the mercy of the companiesTo that end: I'd say that OP is prettt on point by suggesting Headscale, you're still "using Tailscale" in a sense, but without chaining yourself to the business
I am not that big of an enthusiast, but the way I see it, if a company goes rogue and you’re using their open source code, it’s just a matter of forking it (I’m thinking about Emby/Jellyfin as an example) If you rely on their infrastructure (such as Tailscale servers) then you are at the mercy of the companies
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Corporate VPN startup Tailscale secures $230 million CAD Series C on back of “surprising” growth
Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO).
“Tailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,” Pennarun said. “Meanwhile, we have an extremely efficient business model, rapid revenue acceleration, and a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed, which means we can weather all kinds of economic storms.”
Keep that in mind as you ponder whether and when to switch to self-hosting Headscale.
Tailscale is great. The principle concern to me is that your super easy mesh network depends on Tailscale so if they want it they have control, and if they change their pricing or options you depend on them, and though they can't see the data you send they can see the topology of your network and where all your computers/devices are.
I use Nebula, which is more work to set up and doesn't have some of the features, not
But if you slap the 'lighthouse' (administrating node) on a cheap VPS it works great. And it has some advantages. But Nebula also troubles me: though it's fully open source and fully in your control, the documentation isn't great. Instead, you can now get "managed nebula", which puts you in the same problem as Tailscale: the company sees and controls your network topology. I fear the company (Defined Networking) is trying to push things that way. Even their android app you can't fully configure unless you use their 'managed' service.For now, Nebula is great, and my preferred mesh network (I looked into all the main ones). And for Tailscale you can run the administration server yourself with Headscale and be fully in your control.
Actually I wish Tailscale the best as a profitable business. They've created a fantastic service and system. But for me, I'd rather my network be in my own hands and for my own eyes. And, as is OP's main point, once they have enough dependent users, the service might turn much worse.
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Are there better alternatives? I was planning on using tailscale until now.
I use Nebula. It's lightweight, well-engineered and fully under your control. But you do need a computer with a fixed IP and accessible port. (E.g. a cheap VPS)
You can also use "managed nebula" if you want to enjoy the same risk of the control point of your network depending on a new business
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Tailscale is great. The principle concern to me is that your super easy mesh network depends on Tailscale so if they want it they have control, and if they change their pricing or options you depend on them, and though they can't see the data you send they can see the topology of your network and where all your computers/devices are.
I use Nebula, which is more work to set up and doesn't have some of the features, not
But if you slap the 'lighthouse' (administrating node) on a cheap VPS it works great. And it has some advantages. But Nebula also troubles me: though it's fully open source and fully in your control, the documentation isn't great. Instead, you can now get "managed nebula", which puts you in the same problem as Tailscale: the company sees and controls your network topology. I fear the company (Defined Networking) is trying to push things that way. Even their android app you can't fully configure unless you use their 'managed' service.For now, Nebula is great, and my preferred mesh network (I looked into all the main ones). And for Tailscale you can run the administration server yourself with Headscale and be fully in your control.
Actually I wish Tailscale the best as a profitable business. They've created a fantastic service and system. But for me, I'd rather my network be in my own hands and for my own eyes. And, as is OP's main point, once they have enough dependent users, the service might turn much worse.
Nice to hear your experience with Nebula. I considered it when I went with Tailscale years ago. Now you gotta migrate off of lemm.ee as it's shutting down soon.
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Yeah, I also use that, but it's not quite as easy as the others. Either you're open to the whole network or you need some form of external key management to add/remove peers from your network.
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There's a disclaimer in the readme: https://github.com/juanfont/headscale/?tab=readme-ov-file#disclaimer
The maintainer Tailscale contributes happens to be the lead developer by commit count at the moment.
Thank you!
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Didnt even work for me, i use mullvad so if i wanted to use tailscale on my android to connect to my desktop, it wants me to disable mullvad unlike on my desktop..
Hmmm. I run PIA and Tailscale simultaneously on my devices. I did have to tinker around with the settings in PIA such as the VPN & Advanced Kill Switch. So, now Tailscale is for administrating remote servers, and PIA for everything else. DNS leak checks, etc all check out.
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Corporate VPN startup Tailscale secures $230 million CAD Series C on back of “surprising” growth
Pennarun confirmed the company had been approached by potential acquirers, but told BetaKit that the company intends to grow as a private company and work towards an initial public offering (IPO).
“Tailscale intends to remain independent and we are on a likely IPO track, although any IPO is several years out,” Pennarun said. “Meanwhile, we have an extremely efficient business model, rapid revenue acceleration, and a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed, which means we can weather all kinds of economic storms.”
Keep that in mind as you ponder whether and when to switch to self-hosting Headscale.
Tailscale is a business seeking profit? (clutches pearls gasp)
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You really don't though. I use wireguard myself under the same scenario without issue. You just need to use some form of dynamic DNS to mitigate the potentially changing IP. Even if you're using Tailscale you'll still need to have something running a service all the time anyways, so may as well skip the proxy.
Your approach won't work if you're behind carrier grade NAT or you can't open ports. My landlord provides my internet so I use tailscale (with headscale on my long distance vps) to connect everything and it works great. It uses LAN when I'm home, and NAT punches when I'm elsewhere.
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Tailscale is a business seeking profit? (clutches pearls gasp)
wrote last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
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Historically, Accel has never pushed acquisition. On the contrary, they do the opposite. Its why they VC fund over 300 companies, but you've never heard of them. That's not to say they couldn't, but they haven't ever acted in that manner previously so logically it would be safe to assume that trend continues with Tailscale. I think that's important here: its not about ability its about intent. If as a organization you give funding to another organization (even non-profits) you exercise at least some control over them as they are dependent on that money to function. This is actually a point other commenters have made in regards to Headscale. Headscale is maintained by a Tailscale employee. As they fund him personally, they can exercise some control over him as he depends on that money/employment. Again, even their comments circle back to ability vs intent. Tailscale could influence their employee, but would they? That's where a lot of the VC argument goes. Its just speculation as what a group could do, not what they would do.
“The trend” is making money no matter what. That means they’re gonna screw you over eventually, the countdown has already begun, and it’s just a matter of time
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::: spoiler spoiler
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:::....and what are current Plex users, that don't like the direction Plex has taken, doing ? Riding the next horse. When Tailscale gets unbearable with their business practices, there are a lot of other options. Tailscale is just easy and it flippin' works.
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I think that's because both work on Android by being a VPN, and the system can't handle doing two vpns simultaneously
Well not really but most people don’t like manually editing routing tables
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Didnt even work for me, i use mullvad so if i wanted to use tailscale on my android to connect to my desktop, it wants me to disable mullvad unlike on my desktop..
Tailscale offers a paid Mullvad integration, where you can select most Mullvad servers as exit nodes. Works quite well.
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“The trend” is making money no matter what. That means they’re gonna screw you over eventually, the countdown has already begun, and it’s just a matter of time
Is there an actual example you can provide of Accel doing that or is this more an emotionally driven statement you have?
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Is there an actual example you can provide of Accel doing that or is this more an emotionally driven statement you have?
The specific company does not, in fact, matter because VCs have the same set of incentives in the end
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....and what are current Plex users, that don't like the direction Plex has taken, doing ? Riding the next horse. When Tailscale gets unbearable with their business practices, there are a lot of other options. Tailscale is just easy and it flippin' works.
wrote last edited by [email protected]::: spoiler spoiler
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yellow flag to me (too many ad emails)
Weird. I'm not saying you're lying, but besides the registration email, and onboarding welcome email, I can't think of any others I've received from Tailscale. In fact, I just did a search of my email client, and those were the only ones I've received.
I do believe my experience in this regard is not representative of everyone, I probably failed to untick some checkbox (regarding communications) and the "too many ad emails" are a handful (in 3 months), which to me is a handful too much (having to untick a box should not be necessary)
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a long runway that allows us to become profitable when needed
Switch to self-hosting headscale when they enshittify in an attempt to become profitable, duh
I mainly use Tailscale (and Zerotier) to access my CGNATED LAN, headscale will require me to pay a subscription for a VPS wouldn't it?
I really envy the guys who say only use them because they're lazy to open ports or want a more secure approach, I use them because I NEED them lol.
If (when?) Tailscale enshitify I'll stick with ZT a bit until it goes the same way lol, I started using it 1st, I don't know if ZT came before Tailscale though.
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The specific company does not, in fact, matter because VCs have the same set of incentives in the end
So, even if Accel doesn't do that, which they haven't done that, they are still guilty of doing that. Ok, yeah. That's some solid irrefutable logic you got going there. I think I'll go back to arguing this with commenters who are a little less emotional and more grounded in real world points about the topic.
