Anon is Illiterate
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I recall reading somewhere that adult literacy was at like 98% in the US. Though that was like 25 years ago, and I suppose a 6th grade level still counts as “literate”? Or did we slide backwards?
If we have to talk about this in terms of “grade levels”, at what point is someone actually considered illiterate?
Up until the mid-60s, the US did not have a standard high school educational system. Some cities had high schools, some capped out at elementary or "middle" school. A few people went to college, but the overwhelming majority didn't.
Early journalistic standards of the era sought to produce written works that could be
marketedenjoyed by the largest appreciable volume of people. So the standard for writing was set at the 6th grade level. Everyone from the NYT to Random House targeted articles and books to the 6th grade level, because this was where the maximal market share of reading consumers lived.Consequently we've produced a super-abundance of written material at the 6th grade level. If you're no longer in school and you're doing recreational reading, you're most likely consuming something designed to be read by middle-schoolers. And because this is the de facto standard, and has been for over half a century, we have this enormous backlog of material - classical novels, famous newspaper clips, screenplays, speeches, encyclopedias, commercials - all geared to this level.
People maintain their skills with practice and this is no less true of reading than any other occupation. So when you survey people - many of whom haven't touched a scientific paper or "advanced" novel in decades - as to their reading level, they consistently reproduce the skills for which the bulk of English written works are produced.
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wtf is a "chapter book"?
it is a book which is long enough that its broken into "chapters" so that you have a good stopping point to pause your reading for the day.
Or in the context of OOP, a book containing many^1^ pages of text and no pictures^2^
- greater than 30
- more than 0.5 pages of text per image
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I read a lot of science fiction, and a younger friends at work frequently asked me for recommendations, and he liked talking about the books after reading them. At some point I found out that he exclusively consumes them as audiobooks, which is fine and I didn't think much about it. Some years down the line, when I was getting ready to retire, I had to pass on things to him. There was enough of it that, in addition to working elbow-to-elbow with him, I documented all the details in some long emails. When we meet, I'd say "The details are in the email," and focus on explaining the big picture.
It became obvious that he never read the emails. When I talked to him about it, he admitted that he really struggles with any long block of text. The guy is really smart, and he knows a lot about a lot of things, but he gets all his info from audio and video because struggles to consume text. There's clearly some kind of learning/mental issue going on there. It's going to make the job tough for him, but I hope he works it out.
wrote last edited by [email protected]If only everyone recorded personal logs like in Star Trek you could have just bequeathed him those! On a serious note though, good on them for trying to learn and expand their knowledge even with some sort of learning disability. I was diagnosed with ADHD like 30 years ago and I understand how troubling it can be trying to read things while constantly having to re-read sentences because you spaced out, or having to keep 5 browser tabs open because each new section brings up some other topic that I now need. I describe my learning/throught process as a spider web for good reason.
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I listen to audio books more often than reading an actual book.
When I used to have a 60 minute commute to work (train to a short walk to a metro to another short walk) I would down audio books like a fiend on the train. I have a neurodevelopmental disorder that makes it difficult to maintain concentration and when the narrator does distinct voices or music for different characters/scenes/etc. it's easier for me to follow than books.
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I listen to audio books more often than reading an actual book.
I used to read physical books all the time when I was younger, but as I aged and audiobooks became downloads instead of massive multiple disc CD sets, I shifted. Isn't because I can't read anymore, and my eyes havent failed me yet that I need reading glasses, but I just like doing OTHER THINGS while reading. Plus I extra love when voice actors make it a PERFORMANCE. In ye old days it used to be just a narrator reading the words, often tonelessly, but Audible books these days are PERFORMANCES. I like popping on an audio book while im driving, while im in bed trying to fall asleep, and while im playing a grindy part in a video game. Or a video game that doesn't have voice acting so I can enjoy 2 stories simultaneously, or Roguelike video games where there's no story at all, or story beats only occur when you're at your home base.
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If only everyone recorded personal logs like in Star Trek you could have just bequeathed him those! On a serious note though, good on them for trying to learn and expand their knowledge even with some sort of learning disability. I was diagnosed with ADHD like 30 years ago and I understand how troubling it can be trying to read things while constantly having to re-read sentences because you spaced out, or having to keep 5 browser tabs open because each new section brings up some other topic that I now need. I describe my learning/throught process as a spider web for good reason.
Life is hard enough without those extra challenges. Hang in there.
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The problem with comic books is that they're all about this big flashy pictures and they never have any words in them. Oh well, anyway, off to read some more Chainsaw Man and One Punch...
wrote last edited by [email protected]He looks absolutely enthralled by the wall of text lol.
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This post did not contain any content.wrote last edited by [email protected]
what the fuck is a "chapter book"? does he mean a novel
comic books are fucking stupid
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I used to read physical books all the time when I was younger, but as I aged and audiobooks became downloads instead of massive multiple disc CD sets, I shifted. Isn't because I can't read anymore, and my eyes havent failed me yet that I need reading glasses, but I just like doing OTHER THINGS while reading. Plus I extra love when voice actors make it a PERFORMANCE. In ye old days it used to be just a narrator reading the words, often tonelessly, but Audible books these days are PERFORMANCES. I like popping on an audio book while im driving, while im in bed trying to fall asleep, and while im playing a grindy part in a video game. Or a video game that doesn't have voice acting so I can enjoy 2 stories simultaneously, or Roguelike video games where there's no story at all, or story beats only occur when you're at your home base.
Some of them remind me of the old-timey radio shows from before TV. There was one I used to listen to when we had satellite radio that was about some private investigator for an insurance firm that would go around investigating fraud and, with the way they produced it, it felt like a full on murder mystery. Good stuff.
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Do you enjoy graphic novels?
Not really, they just never felt entertaining to me. Most of my family members are big readers, I'm just the oddball.
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I read a lot of science fiction, and a younger friends at work frequently asked me for recommendations, and he liked talking about the books after reading them. At some point I found out that he exclusively consumes them as audiobooks, which is fine and I didn't think much about it. Some years down the line, when I was getting ready to retire, I had to pass on things to him. There was enough of it that, in addition to working elbow-to-elbow with him, I documented all the details in some long emails. When we meet, I'd say "The details are in the email," and focus on explaining the big picture.
It became obvious that he never read the emails. When I talked to him about it, he admitted that he really struggles with any long block of text. The guy is really smart, and he knows a lot about a lot of things, but he gets all his info from audio and video because struggles to consume text. There's clearly some kind of learning/mental issue going on there. It's going to make the job tough for him, but I hope he works it out.
They found a way to learn that works for them. As someone that almost always prefer text, I understand why you feel this way but you must have realized that most people prefer this format. And as far as I can tell, so long as they can read an email when it's important (which they'll learn one way or another), it will be fine.
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I've known several men that were proud that they didn't read books. (Not that they read manga or anything, either.)
One of them, in particuular, was a grown up version of a stereotypical highschool bully. Willfully ignorant doesn't begin to describe him. I ever meet him in a dark alley, I'd fucking gut him.
Anyhow, this behaviour (pride in ignorance) among women is rare enough that I've never seen it. When I was doing online dating, I had great success asking what they're reading and using decent grammar and vocabulary.
Anti-intellectualism and willfull ignorance have a lot to do with the situation here in the US. I think it's mostly a male problem as well.
I met a lot of women like this also. It just manifests differently. Rather than books it will be the newest celebrity drama/reality show.
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You can build up literacy like a muscle. I can read a lot if I forget to take my ADHD worsener (valproic acid), but even with that I can sometimes "rawdog" it.
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what the fuck is a "chapter book"? does he mean a novel
comic books are fucking stupid
Doesn't sound like you're any different than oop when it comes to pointlessly hating on something that others enjoy.
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They found a way to learn that works for them. As someone that almost always prefer text, I understand why you feel this way but you must have realized that most people prefer this format. And as far as I can tell, so long as they can read an email when it's important (which they'll learn one way or another), it will be fine.
He's been working at the company for more than 15 years and still struggles to read any significant block of text, so I'm worried for him. It's not that he prefers audio, it's that text is a real problem for him.
And don't misunderstand me: I'm the guy's biggest cheerleader; I very much want him to succeed and am happy with any viable workaround he finds. I'm not pushing any sort of personal bias on him. The company works with a lot of text.
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what the fuck is a "chapter book"? does he mean a novel
comic books are fucking stupid
what the fuck is a “chapter book”?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_book
It's a kind of book for children who are learning to read, which unlike a picture book (or, to some extent, a comic book) consists primarily of text that the reader must read in order to get the story.
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You can build up literacy like a muscle. I can read a lot if I forget to take my ADHD worsener (valproic acid), but even with that I can sometimes "rawdog" it.
This, I used to read a lot, even with my ADHD.
But for some reason I stopped, and now I struggle to focus reading.
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The problem with comic books is that they're all about this big flashy pictures and they never have any words in them. Oh well, anyway, off to read some more Chainsaw Man and One Punch...
God I'm remembering in Hunter X Hunter how there were entire spreads detailing complex rulesets for world building, and they legit felt like the silmarilion at times.
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That's great to hear. And for what it's worth while I can imagine simple images, I don't usually while I'm reading. I just sort of understand what's happening in a non-visual way.
yeah exactly. i find it really interesting how some people just can't separate understanding a text from internally picturing it. it makes me wonder if there's some legitimate difference in information processing, or if people who can visualize tend to associate understanding with imagining even if they're actually unrelated
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This, I used to read a lot, even with my ADHD.
But for some reason I stopped, and now I struggle to focus reading.
Brains gravitate to the quickest easiest dopamine responses, and will ignore things that give rewards slower. ADHD brains are particularly bad for this.
I have the exact same issue. If I was able to give up scrolling social media, I'm sure I'd be back on the books again inside of a few weeks. We'll just have to wait for the great collapse.
