An open source Peer-to-peer serverless decentralized social media protocol built on IPFS
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Please spare me whatever philosophical navel gazing you're trying to do here. I'm asking what should be an incredibly straightforward question about what should be basic functionality in any P2P seeding based system:
What control, if any, does an individual user have over what they seed back into the system?
Some P2P systems just give each user an encrypted blob of all sorts of stuff, so the individual user can't choose and on paper isn't responsible for whatever it is that they are seeding back in. I'm personally not ok with not having a way to ensure that I'm not seeding nazi manifestos.
I will still check it out, but it doesn't mean I will adopt it.
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Please spare me whatever philosophical navel gazing you're trying to do here. I'm asking what should be an incredibly straightforward question about what should be basic functionality in any P2P seeding based system:
What control, if any, does an individual user have over what they seed back into the system?
Some P2P systems just give each user an encrypted blob of all sorts of stuff, so the individual user can't choose and on paper isn't responsible for whatever it is that they are seeding back in. I'm personally not ok with not having a way to ensure that I'm not seeding nazi manifestos.
I liked "navel gazing" I'm keeping that one.
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From the whitepaper:
- The user completes the captcha challenge and publishes his post and
captcha challenge answer over pubsub. - The subplebbit owner’s client gets notified that the user published to his
pubsub, the post is not ignored because it contains a correct captcha
challenge answer. - The subplebbit owner’s client publishes a message over pubsub indicating
that the captcha answer is correct or incorrect. Peers relaying too many
messages with incorrect or no captcha answers get blocked to avoid DDOS
of the pubsub. - The subplebbit owner’s client updates the content of his subplebbit’s
public key-based addressing automatically
I may be misunderstanding how this protocol works, but at step 10 what prevents the owner from publishing the captcha answer as incorrect as a method of censorship based on the content of the post?
The owner can obviously moderate and thereby censor, anyway. Thats not the kind of censorship free this thing advertises. Its not more or less censored as lemmy is when instance hosts do moderation.
- The user completes the captcha challenge and publishes his post and
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Hopefully! That way all the crypto bros will concentrate there and leave normal social media alone.
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I was there for the early days of Voat, which was an earlier version of a Reddit clone. Those first few months were nice, but it quickly devolved into a hate-filled N*zi safe haven.
Fediverse has an early version of a bot problem, which is ubiquitous in all social media these days (thanks to state actors and also corpos that want you to think/feel a certain way). idk how the fediverse is handling the bot problem, but for now it seems to be less noticeable here than other places.
If the platform is truly "free speech" without any moderation, then it will quickly devolve into worse than 4chan.
Voat is gone now, which is a good thing, but if you have an programming background you can use an LLM to study the way it self-destructed by looking at the archive.org snippets. See how it quickly became theDonald but worse.
That is what will happen to this un-moderated decentralized social media protocol.
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Because there isn’t a solution.
This has been discussed and experimented with to death where such networks existed for a long time. Just because you never heard of them or even knew they exist doesn't mean that they don't.
See Freenet/Hyphanet and the three approaches (local trust, shared user trust lists, web of trust) if you want to learn something. The second one worked out the best from a performance and scalability point of view compared to the third.
See Freenet/Hyphanet
Please don't, because it is literally the largest place online that openly trades CSAM. Law enforcement even run their own nodes there to try to catch people.
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no global admins, and no way shut down communities-meaning true censorship resistance.
"True censorship resistance" is not a desirable property. No normal user wants to deal with moderation. You need to have a structure for delegating moderation and such tasks to other people.
Says who? Moderate your damn self, wannabe. Better yet, GTFO and don't touch this horror show. You might break a pinky.
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Plebbit is pure peer-to-peer social media protocol, it has no central servers, no global admins, and no way shut down communities-meaning true censorship resistance.
Unlike federated platforms, like lemmy and Mastedon, there are no instances or servers to rely on
this project was created due to wanting to give control of communication and data back to the people.
Plebbit only hosts text. Images from google and other sites can be linked/embedded in posts. This fixes the issue of hosting any nefarious content.
ENS domain are used to name communities.
Plebbit currently offers different UIs. Old reddit UI and new reddit, 4chan, and have a Blog. Plebbit intend to have an app, internet archive, wiki and twitter and Lemmy UI . Choice is important. The backend/communities are shared across clients.
anyone can contribute, build their own client, and shape the ecosystem
Important Links :
Home
App
https://plebbit.com/home#cb2a9c90-6f09-44b2-be03-75f543f9f5aa
FAQ
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper/blob/master/FAQ.md
Whitepapers
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper/discussions/2
Github
https://github.com/plebbit/plebbit-react
https://github.com/plebbit/plebbit-react/releases
i don't trust any messenger system that uses the word "serverless". such a word is misleading, at best, and a scam more likely.
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Plebbit is pure peer-to-peer social media protocol, it has no central servers, no global admins, and no way shut down communities-meaning true censorship resistance.
Unlike federated platforms, like lemmy and Mastedon, there are no instances or servers to rely on
this project was created due to wanting to give control of communication and data back to the people.
Plebbit only hosts text. Images from google and other sites can be linked/embedded in posts. This fixes the issue of hosting any nefarious content.
ENS domain are used to name communities.
Plebbit currently offers different UIs. Old reddit UI and new reddit, 4chan, and have a Blog. Plebbit intend to have an app, internet archive, wiki and twitter and Lemmy UI . Choice is important. The backend/communities are shared across clients.
anyone can contribute, build their own client, and shape the ecosystem
Important Links :
Home
App
https://plebbit.com/home#cb2a9c90-6f09-44b2-be03-75f543f9f5aa
FAQ
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper/blob/master/FAQ.md
Whitepapers
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper/discussions/2
Github
https://github.com/plebbit/plebbit-react
https://github.com/plebbit/plebbit-react/releases
This fixes the issue of hosting any nefarious content.
::: spoiler NSFW = Nefarious content
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:::Just proving a point.
Perhaps you want a character limit and spam protection? But how?
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See Freenet/Hyphanet
Please don't, because it is literally the largest place online that openly trades CSAM. Law enforcement even run their own nodes there to try to catch people.
Didn't click on your links. But LEA does this move against any network that may offer anonymization. Don't use Tor hidden services. Don't go near I2P. Stay away from Freenet...etc. This even includes any platform that is seen as not fully under control, like Telegram at some point.
In its essence, this move is no different from "Don't go near Lemmy because it's a Putin-supporting communist platform filled with evil state agents".
Does any network that may offer anonymization (even if misleadingly) attract undesirable people, possibly including flat out criminals? Yes.
Should everyone stay away from all of them because of that? That's up to each individual to decide, preferably after seeing for themselves.
But parroting "think of the children" talking points against individual networks points to either intellectual deficiency, high susceptibility to consent-manufacturing propaganda, or some less innocent explanations.
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Is this reply AI generated?
Partially.
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Plebbit is pure peer-to-peer social media protocol, it has no central servers, no global admins, and no way shut down communities-meaning true censorship resistance.
Unlike federated platforms, like lemmy and Mastedon, there are no instances or servers to rely on
this project was created due to wanting to give control of communication and data back to the people.
Plebbit only hosts text. Images from google and other sites can be linked/embedded in posts. This fixes the issue of hosting any nefarious content.
ENS domain are used to name communities.
Plebbit currently offers different UIs. Old reddit UI and new reddit, 4chan, and have a Blog. Plebbit intend to have an app, internet archive, wiki and twitter and Lemmy UI . Choice is important. The backend/communities are shared across clients.
anyone can contribute, build their own client, and shape the ecosystem
Important Links :
Home
App
https://plebbit.com/home#cb2a9c90-6f09-44b2-be03-75f543f9f5aa
FAQ
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper/blob/master/FAQ.md
Whitepapers
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper
https://github.com/plebbit/whitepaper/discussions/2
Github
https://github.com/plebbit/plebbit-react
https://github.com/plebbit/plebbit-react/releases
Looks promising, but too difficult to use for average user.
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i don't trust any messenger system that uses the word "serverless". such a word is misleading, at best, and a scam more likely.
I agree in general, just like the word "decentralized". But in this case it's legit, because it simply means it's p2p. I'd call bitcoin "serverless" as well, so it's BitTorrent and IPFS. Plebbit is exactly the same: you open the desktop app and it runs a p2p node automatically in the background, to run your subplebbit, and users connect to it peer to peer. Your p2p node is not really a "server", because it doesn't require any centralized domain to function, it uses transport protocols and peer discovery instead.
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no global admins, and no way shut down communities-meaning true censorship resistance.
"True censorship resistance" is not a desirable property. No normal user wants to deal with moderation. You need to have a structure for delegating moderation and such tasks to other people.
You need to have a structure for delegating moderation and such tasks to other people.
We actually have it: since there's no central database of communities, who decides which ones appear in the homepage of the apps to first-time users? We use a "default list" of communities, which is effectively moderated (vetoed) by the app developer. This is the only "global admin" we basically have, but it's only for the app itself, not the protocol, and it still doesn't stop users from connecting p2p to the community (depending on the app, some plebbit client developers could implement blacklists).
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The communities moderate themselves with their own admins, just like on reddit. The difference is, there's no global admins that can censor communities or enforce global rules. However, the plebbit app developer can basically act like a global admin by blacklisting connections to certain communities. I predict the most popular plebbit apps won't include such blacklisting functions.
Plebbit is like BitTorrent, there's no global BitTorrent admin. You use a BitTorrent client (like uTorrent) to download torrents, and the client could technically blacklist your torrent. You use a plebbit client (like Seedit) to download a subplebbit, and the client could technically blacklist your subplebbit.
It's entirely possible that more centralized plebbit clients will be created, to be published on app stores for example, and they will implement whitelists of safe communities to participate in, blocking any other community.
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@Plebbitor I could not join the matrix, please check the server is OK
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How long until this gets overrun with
and nobody wants to use itthere's no
because ALL data on plebbit is text-only, you cannot upload media. We did this intentionally, so if you want to post media you must post a direct link to it (the interface embeds the media automatically), a link from centralized sites like imgur and stuff, who know your IP address, take down the media immediately (the embed 404's) and report you to authorities. Further, plebbit works like torrents so your IP is already in the swarm, so you really shouldn't use it for anything illegal or you'll get caught. -
Plebbit only hosts text. Images from google and other sites can be linked/embedded in posts. This fixes the issue of hosting any nefarious content.
Nowhere in the project whitepaper or FAQ does it talk about banning image hosting. Base64 encoding images in the text post is trivial, so maybe OP is the one projecting this intent or feature?
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If there's no central server then where is all the data stored?. With Lemmy I know the instance creator has to host it all on his own server.
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Well from their site
Moderation
Since there are no global admins, the administrative control of a subplebbit rests solely with its creator. No one else can moderate content or accounts unless the subplebbit creator grants them permission.
So, it's not that theirs no moderation. It's just "subplebbit" creator/delegates controlled as there is no over arching site wide company able to moderate it on the whole.
It will mean, as a user, you'll have to be liberal with removing subplebbits from your own feed though. I'm sure there will be some.. not so pleasant subplebbits appearing.
Sounds like some insane legal liability to take on with how weird shit is. Will definitely be making an account to check it out though seems like a really cool idea.
