Italy calls for 'immediate' summit between US, Europe following Zelensky-Trump clash
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I hope so. A good step would be for the UK to rejoin the EU but that seems unlikely to happen in the next decade. But we need to build solidarity and resilience, and like you say, increase our independence as much as feasible
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It's not entirely correct to use the ukranian war as an example of EU industries not being able to supply enough: the US took the lead there an EU expected support to last so they didn't even make the effort. Most of our industries SELL abroad an ukraine was not needing our support since the US was supposed to cover for it.
Granted the industry is fragmented and not really cohesive, so it would lack in the quantity, but I was merely referring to quality as in we are able to create top of the line weapons and systems that are the best of the world (exluding stealth fighter jets).
If the EU focuses in one direction and stops selling all around... And seeing how it is being basically forced to do so.
This was more of an answer to the guys saying "EU just buys US weapons because those are the best!" Rather than a direct answer to you, but I'd rather answer to someone capable of reasoning...
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I mean, if you were actually capable of reasoning you would have picked up early on that I very clearly stated Europe has world-class technology and potential. As you already noted, along with European leaders and industry analysts, fragmentation is a challenge (among other challenges.)
"the US took the lead there an EU expected support to last"
The USA was clear from the get-go that EU needed to provide a lot of support and that we largely view this is a European war, because, you know, it is a European war.
It's too bad you were so focused on attacking me from the get-go because we actually probably could have had a great and insightful conversation.
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Yeah but to change our trajectory on climate change we need a dramatic change in political will
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Oh yeah, substantial change will require a huge overall in political and social views, I fully agree there. Right now, at best, it seems like we might get some occasional bandaids.
A huge war might indeed be one of the few catalysts to instill that change. Major environmental crises might do it too, but those events will probably unfold after too much damage has been done.
Wildfires, hurricanes, and everything else have been pretty crazy in recent years but what we're seeing now may pale compared to what we see in say thirty years.
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Sad but true
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And that's where I disagree.
Playing by the rules has nothing to do with not having values. MSI had ideology, their founders came directly from RSI and never renegaded the fascist regime, and Fini - who "evolved" the right wing - is seen as a traitor by those in Almirante's school because he did renegade fascism (at least, formally). Meloni's party could have turned populist and pursue more favorable positions, and instead she stuck with her shitty ideas despite having minimal consensus early on.If tomorrow international press were to start shitting on the church this person would do a 360 and change their views like mussolini did with lateran treaty
I don't think so at all. It's a speculation of course. Which to me makes it worse, because the idea of Christianity she has (conservative, strict gender roles, strong "moral" values, etc.) survives the relationship with the church itself, even if this one should evolve (unlikely). Take for example abortion. Abortion has wide support among Italian population. Despite this, she still sticks with her reactionary position, because this is descending from those core values. Look instead Salvini's relationship with religion to see what an ideological whore looks like...
By the way, you are talking about Mussolini's evolution, but that was before he founded fascism, and anyway his Later treaties were a perfect political instrument to gain power. Deschner in "Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums" (Criminal history of Christianity) covers the whole timeline quite in depth, and if it was not for the church support he wouldn't have managed to pass the "leggi fascistissime" (including the electoral reform) which ultimately lead him to take full power, via the alienation of Sturzo.
So once again, Mussolini's relationship with the church is debatable and mostly functional to him pursuing his power grab. For sure there are strong overlaps with traditional christian morality and fascism, but I see these as more part of the strategy to form a strong identity around which to build nationalism.
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Interesting, I guess it's hard for me to know the viewpoint of other countries that are not so much in the spotlight (no offense, of course). I know close to 0 about Denmark's relationship with US, for example.
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MSI had ideology, their founders came directly from RSI and never renegaded the fascist regime
Fascists fought WWII against the allies and lost to them, these people siding with USA make them sound like the perfect renegates.
I don’t think so at all. It’s a speculation of course.
They scream shit all day and then do the opposite, you know they would do it.
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Don't know what business a russian puppet state has being in NATO. The sooner the US is kicked out of NATO the better.
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I already mentioned why atlantism is a position ad a result of anticommunism.
We are going in cirlces I guess. -
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough since I stated it at the end of the message instead of the beginning. I agree with basically everything you said, except using the ukranian war support as an example of the production capabilities of the EU industry.
Sorry if it came out as if I wanted to attack you on points you agreed upon, I just used you improperly as a way to post those points out more clearly for others to see.
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E anche na gran fija.
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Maybe not, but the majority of voters apparently support Trump - so effectively that means USA as a country supports Trump. (And thus the USA as a country is no longer reliable or trustworthy.)
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Fair. The whole world is on thin ice and things may snowball quickly. I wish the best for Europe in the months and years ahead.
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Just saying...it's fucking Trump and his genocidal narcissistic billionaire Nazis that are sucking Russian cock...There are millions of us agast and horrified at this goddamn heel turn to Russian scum...and fuck me lots of us in the US are dumber than dog shit with no ability for critical thought.
Slava Ukraine!
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MEGA is a great idea, just don't let maggots...I mean magat style insanity infiltrate, truly grow. I'm so ashamed of my country
