Save The Planet
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One user vs a public service is apples to oranges and it's actually hilarious you're so willing to compare them.
It's literally the same thing, the obvious difference is how much usage it's getting at a time per gpu, but everyone seems to assume all these data centers are running at full load at all times for some reason?
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He isn't talking about locally, he is talking about what it takes for the AI providers to provide the AI.
To say "it takes more energy during training" entirely depends on the load put on the inference servers, and the size of the inference server farm.
There's no functional difference aside from usage and scale, which is my point.
I find it interesting that the only actual energy calculations I see from researchers is the training and the things going along with the training, rather then the usage per actual request after training.
People then conflate training energy costs to normal usage cost without data to back it up. I don't have the data either but I do have what I can do/see on my side.
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Worse is Google that insists on shoving a terrible AI-based result in your face every time you do a search, with no way to turn it off.
I'm not telling these systems to generate images of cow-like girls, but I'm getting AI shoved in my face all the time whether I want it or not. (I don't).
Then I guess it's time to stop using Google!
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I can't believe they're not even gonna show us the 5 titty girl.
I'm here waiting for it
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Doesn't seem to be a waste of power to me.
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Ok now go just one step further and ask yourself what variables factor into this.
There's a reason that pattern exists, and it isn't because solar and cooling hours don't align.
the difference between demand and net demand in that graph is purely solar/wind generation, isn't it?
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And including the word "fuck" in your query no longer stops it.
And when it did it also altered the results, making them worse, because it was trying to satisfy "fuck" as part of your search.
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Oh, and you don't want it and want the stupid model? You can still buy it for 3x the price.
Do the new models even have non-"smart" fittings? I thought all the electronic chip plants closed during covid.
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So you think they're all at full load at all times? Does that seem reasonable to you?
Given that cloud providers are desperately trying to get more compute resources, but are limited by chip production - yes, of course? Why do you think they're trying to expand their resources while their existing resources aren't already limited?
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Given that cloud providers are desperately trying to get more compute resources, but are limited by chip production - yes, of course? Why do you think they're trying to expand their resources while their existing resources aren't already limited?
Because they want the majority of the new chips for training models, not running the existing ones would be my assertion. Two different use cases
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What tools do you think capitalism is going to use to fuck us harder and faster than ever before?
All of them at their disposal, we should get rid of all tools
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When I’m told there’s power issues and to conserve power I drop my AC to 60 and leave all my lights on. Only way for them to fix the grid is to break it.
wow based
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Because they want the majority of the new chips for training models, not running the existing ones would be my assertion. Two different use cases
Sure, and that's why many cloud providers - even ones that don't train their own models - are only slowly onboarding new customers onto bigger models. Sure. Makes total sense.
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Do you have a source for the cooling off effect of the duck curve?
Following is a 2 year old article hinting an increase in the effect https://www.powermag.com/epri-head-duck-curve-now-looks-like-a-canyon/ afaik it hasn't changed much but I'm open to news
I'm not really saying that the curve itself is changing (sorry, I was really not clear), only that those other variables reduce actual energy demand later in the day because of the efficiency gains and thermal banking that happens during the peak energy production. The overproduction during max solar hours is still a problem. Even if the utility doesn't have a way of banking the extra supply, individual customers can do it themselves at a smaller scale, even if just by over-cooling their homes to reduce their demand after sundown.
Overall, the problem of the duck curve isn't as much about maxing out the grid, it's about the utility not having instantaneous power availability when the sun suddenly goes down. For people like me who work from home and have the flexibility to keep my home cool enough to need less cooling in the evening, having solar power means I can take advantage of that free energy and bank it to reduce my demand in the evening.
I get what you were saying now, but having solar would absolutely reduce my demand during peak hours.
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Didn't some legislation come out banning making laws against AI? (which I realize is a fucking crazy sentence in the first place- nothing besides rights should just get immunity to all potential new laws)
So the cities aren't even the bad guys here. The Senate is.
From what I can tell it got stripped from the Senate version that was just approved. They barely have the heads to pass it, so they aren't going to play volleyball to add it back.
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the difference between demand and net demand in that graph is purely solar/wind generation, isn't it?
Essentially, yea. That, and reduced demand from people setting their thermostats to relax their cooling temps while they're away from home. We should honestly be grateful that we're able to produce so much more energy from solar than what we need for active cooling. It's a good problem to have.
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Worse is Google that insists on shoving a terrible AI-based result in your face every time you do a search, with no way to turn it off.
I'm not telling these systems to generate images of cow-like girls, but I'm getting AI shoved in my face all the time whether I want it or not. (I don't).
There is a way to "turn it off" with some search parameters. However there is no guarantee that the AI is not consuming resources at the backend.
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Essentially, yea. That, and reduced demand from people setting their thermostats to relax their cooling temps while they're away from home. We should honestly be grateful that we're able to produce so much more energy from solar than what we need for active cooling. It's a good problem to have.
that thermostat factor reduces actual demand by a little, doesn't impact the net difference per se.
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Sure, and that's why many cloud providers - even ones that don't train their own models - are only slowly onboarding new customers onto bigger models. Sure. Makes total sense.
I mean do you actually know or are you just assuming?
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that thermostat factor reduces actual demand by a little, doesn't impact the net difference per se.
From the pov of the utility, sure. But in terms of absolute energy use it's possibly the only way to account for that fluctuation.
This is why this debate is so frustrating - producing energy from solar is of huge benefit, but instead of talking about how best to put that production to use, we're talking about the problem it creates for utilities who don't want to adapt to the distributed production.
