What else was the alternative?
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Biden/Harris killed almost 50 thousand people on their watch. It'll be much more when the bones of dead civilians pinned under rubble are actually counted.
If you were honest you'd say you considered both of the candidate to be equal on the gaza war crimes and you voted to keep the rest of your life going undisturbed
You’re conveniently ignoring the fact that most of that happened in the months immediately following 10/7. Of course Israel was going to be insane at that point.
Bold your text all you want lmao whoever we voted for here wasn’t going to change the US from sending money and arms to Israel in the short term. Harris at least wouldn’t have deported and locked up protestors. We’d at least have a voice - which would’ve left an opportunity for things to get better. Anyone pro-Palestine here is fucked now when it comes to that.
She’s also not buddy-buddy with Netanyahu like the special needs orangutan. You absolutely knew what you were getting with Trump if you voted for him or abstained. Anyone that says differently is ignorant as hell or has been on a deserted island cut off from the world for the past 10 years.
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I wasnt out to teach a lesson, I was out to let this place implode. I dont export our countries war crimes to other places because thats momentarily more convenient for me-- like you'd prefer.
Ohh, so you’re an accelerationist! Now your comments make sense. Well, except the one claiming you’re anti-genocide, but the rest make sense. Kinda.
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if you’re not careful this can easily turn into an accidental alliance with Republicans, and it often does.
OK, it seems to me to be very remotely possible but unlikely.
I'd argue that you're coming from a consequentialism "the ends justifies the means" standpoint wheras I'm coming from deontological ethics.
I think you're arguing that "you can do whatever you want to as long as it leads to some identified desired outcome".If republicans are pushing for fascism, as we all seem to perceive here, my approach is the exact opposite of that. You dont need to take my opinion on it, you can use classic models which are a whole lot better than nothing. If you read up (its 60 seconds, I promise) on consequentialism you will see the Harris campaign outlined pretty spot on, and if you read up on deontology you will see the ani genocide crowd, again spot on. Then take a step back and think which is a better way to fight the vasy and sprawling abuses of fascism.
I dont think winging it ends-justifies-the-means style is going to cut it with these stakes. I'm not saying I'm sure I'm right, but I'm positive that I'm doing my best just like I 'd guess a lot of you think you are. When we think of what a bright future is, its a system of laws that irons out basic unfairness and brutality. We all want this. We disagree on how to get there.
Hot take: deontological ethics is a sad way to avoid taking responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
I don't think the ends justify the means, and in equal measure I don't think the means justify the ends.
Then take a step back and think which is a better way to fight the vast and sprawling abuses of fascism.
I'm all for hearing a better way of fighting fascism. Letting a death cult take control of all branches of government was definitely a method. I'm not going to stop listening but like... what the fuck are we doing?
When we think of what a bright future is, its a system of laws that irons out basic unfairness and brutality. We all want this. We disagree on how to get there.
Oh yeah, I want this, and I disagree very heavily with the death cult absolute power method. But I don't have a choice now, it's up to you now to prove that fighting alongside the death cult was the better choice.
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So your "fighting fascists" fight is simply to vote for one of their manufactured war crimes choices both of which demanded you personally be accountable for assisting in murder?
Fascism lite is still fascism. Killing fewer people is still killing, and its wildly illegal and immoral, full stop.
Harris's platform was wildly illegal and immoral. So was trumps. I'm not about to be nagged or threatened into giving my vote to either of those camps.
If that means the country burns itself down then thats fine, we just get a chance to get to the endgame faster where we build it back up to something better. There was nothing down the road of siding with Harris except more zionist puppeteering, and training you all to be nazi prison guards while you deal with the cognitive dissonance of Harris continuing the genocide after you had a hand in getting her in office.
So your anti-genocide "vote" of "not voting" was to be accellerationist and to maximize casualties? My vote means that I'm immoral and your inaction means you're some saint? Right. Gotcha.
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So your "fighting fascists" fight is simply to vote for one of their manufactured war crimes choices both of which demanded you personally be accountable for assisting in murder?
Fascism lite is still fascism. Killing fewer people is still killing, and its wildly illegal and immoral, full stop.
Harris's platform was wildly illegal and immoral. So was trumps. I'm not about to be nagged or threatened into giving my vote to either of those camps.
If that means the country burns itself down then thats fine, we just get a chance to get to the endgame faster where we build it back up to something better. There was nothing down the road of siding with Harris except more zionist puppeteering, and training you all to be nazi prison guards while you deal with the cognitive dissonance of Harris continuing the genocide after you had a hand in getting her in office.
Every month from becoming the nominee until the election Harris campaigned on a cease fire, hostage release, and a two state solution.
These are not "wildly illegal" or genocidal statements. You just refused to see it. Now we have Trump who wants to clear everyone from Gaza for hotels and golf courses. Good jorb!
August:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.html -
Every month from becoming the nominee until the election Harris campaigned on a cease fire, hostage release, and a two state solution.
These are not "wildly illegal" or genocidal statements. You just refused to see it. Now we have Trump who wants to clear everyone from Gaza for hotels and golf courses. Good jorb!
August:
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/23/politics/gaza-israel-harris-convention-speech/index.htmlActions speak louder than words.
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Ohh, so you’re an accelerationist! Now your comments make sense. Well, except the one claiming you’re anti-genocide, but the rest make sense. Kinda.
If our system requires blood to keep functioning then it needs to be smashed and recreated. You'd have it just continue. Although your desire to limp it along kinda makes a sad sort of sense, if you ignore your own hand in keeping it going.
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Actions speak louder than words.
As a Presidential Candidate, legally, she could take no actions unless she won the election.
She told you, REPEATEDLY, what she would do:
Cease fire, hostage release, two state solution.
You call that "genocide".
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If our system requires blood to keep functioning then it needs to be smashed and recreated. You'd have it just continue. Although your desire to limp it along kinda makes a sad sort of sense, if you ignore your own hand in keeping it going.
“This whole system needs to be smashed and recreated, it’s fine if the country burns itself down”
“Btw you’re the one with blood on your hands, I definitely think basic human rights aren’t negotiable”
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As a Presidential Candidate, legally, she could take no actions unless she won the election.
She told you, REPEATEDLY, what she would do:
Cease fire, hostage release, two state solution.
You call that "genocide".
Jordan,
No one believed her and they had ample reason to doubt her honesty in this regard. She was not some sort of secret human rights advocate. Neither was Joe Biden. -
Jordan,
No one believed her and they had ample reason to doubt her honesty in this regard. She was not some sort of secret human rights advocate. Neither was Joe Biden.Whether you BELIEVE her or not is irrelevant. Her stated policy was NOT in support of genocide, on the record, repeatedly.
You can't blame someone for supporting a genocide when they repeatedly tell you they aren't.
"Well, I don't believe you." Yeah and people don't believe we landed on the moon either. That's a problem with the thought process, not the person making the statement.
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Whether you BELIEVE her or not is irrelevant. Her stated policy was NOT in support of genocide, on the record, repeatedly.
You can't blame someone for supporting a genocide when they repeatedly tell you they aren't.
"Well, I don't believe you." Yeah and people don't believe we landed on the moon either. That's a problem with the thought process, not the person making the statement.
And Joe Bidens stated policy was not in support of genocide either, was it. Because the laws dont care if a candidate supports it or not, its explicitly illegal. Biden got around that by claiming no genocide was occurring.
Harris also said she couldnt think of anything she'd change from Bidens policies.
And then when asked what about the genocide at a rally she said she believes in the protestors right to speak and said the war is real, but didnt say the genocide was. And then when asked again she said "I'm talking" and shut the person down. Sh always responded with a template which starts with, "I beleive Israel has a right to defend itself" and then she never said if a genocide was occurring, linking every abuse to "defense", right out of the zionist marketing playbook.
This is your promise of action, huh. This is your proof she was going to do stuff different?
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And Joe Bidens stated policy was not in support of genocide either, was it. Because the laws dont care if a candidate supports it or not, its explicitly illegal. Biden got around that by claiming no genocide was occurring.
Harris also said she couldnt think of anything she'd change from Bidens policies.
And then when asked what about the genocide at a rally she said she believes in the protestors right to speak and said the war is real, but didnt say the genocide was. And then when asked again she said "I'm talking" and shut the person down. Sh always responded with a template which starts with, "I beleive Israel has a right to defend itself" and then she never said if a genocide was occurring, linking every abuse to "defense", right out of the zionist marketing playbook.
This is your promise of action, huh. This is your proof she was going to do stuff different?
Biden also was calling for a cease fire, and a hostage release, not genocide. Again, that was Trump and his "finish it fast" statements.
March, 2024:
We also know now, her campaign was being directly hamstrung by Biden as well:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/5191087-harris-trump-biden-harris/
