'For too long, Apple has operated a walled garden around its products': The EU forces Apple to open its closed system to third parties
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As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it's way more secure.
GrapheneOS is how Android should be, but its a solitary experience versus iOS, which harnesses the interplay with other apple devices.
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I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.From a market regulation view it is more of a prison than Android.
An example is apps have to use WebKit. That's right Firefox for iOS doesn't use Gecko and Google Chrome for iOS doesn't use Chromium. - That's the walled garden. -
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.as long as you don't want to do some crazy unthinkable thing, like, say, getting notifications on your smartwatch that isn't made by Apple
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I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I'm spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can't do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can't get) so they make more money. It's not great that this is so widespread now. At least there's people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an "easy mode" where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that's totally fine. Just don't force it onto everyone.
Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother an iOS device if thats not what you're after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
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Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother an iOS device if thats not what you're after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That's totally fine... But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There's no reason you couldn't hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
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I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That's totally fine... But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There's no reason you couldn't hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
We can agree to disagree. I don't think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
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Finally. We all about to see better prices and more features. If this ends in lower app store fees, its a massive win for every app company in the world!
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It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
Of those steam is the only one that doesn't force you to buy software through them on their own hardware. Obviously they would like you to, but you are free to buy elsewhere.
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Hopefully this actually leads to something lasting, but I don't have high hopes considering how Europe is getting dragged atm
I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging "only" 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
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I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging "only" 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
There isn't really any getting away with.
If what Apple does is within the law then the EU can't prevent it. I'm sure somebody is looking into preventing Apple from doing it, but propper legislation takes time. -
I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don't we want that either.
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We can agree to disagree. I don't think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
What's the disadvantage of being able to open it up? That's the part I don't quite understand. It could be hidden under an "expert" or "full featured" mode or something like that.
I think we're going to eventually reach a point where the European iPhone is far superior to and more innovative than the American one, just because of the fact that you can do a lot more with it. I'm actually curious as to if it determines EU vs US based on where you buy the phone, based on country for the account, or based on something else entirely.
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I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.My Android phone (Realme) allowed me to uninstall most pre-installed bloatware.
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Should you stay with using the Apple app store. It absolutely nothing bad about this decision it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn't force anyone to.
The amount of bad faith arguments in this thread are disturbing for supposedly informed tech savvy people.
There is a ton of fanboyism around Apple, same as there was for Musk some years ago.
I love brand is just another form of tribalism and one that Apple cultivated for decades.
(Curiously, going down the thread I saw fewer Apple fanboys that one would find in, say, Reddit)
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This is very bad. Their walled garden is perfect for the young, elderly, and stupid.
Hopefully some competitor arrives to replace them.
If but perfect you mean perfectly exploitative, sure. The walled garden issue has nothing to do with ease of use my friend; in fact, the whole point is to do the opposite - make anything outside the wall impossibly hard to access or use.
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You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don't we want that either.
The security approach was what first drew me to Apple back in like 2005. The whole focus on proprietary software that resulted in practically zero malware was definitely worth me having to do file-type conversions on documents and all that crap to keep up with people on Windows. And I loved it. And I kept adding every device and loving how seamless they all interact with each other.
But then there’s that shadow side you refer to. The gradual dumbing down of software, the constant hand-holding. The walled garden began to feel like a lock-in.
My last new Mac purchase was in 2011. I still use that machine. But I was not getting security updates and other things I use were leaving me behind so I decided to give Linux a try. Chose Ubuntu and the hardware was suddenly like new again. Apple makes beautiful machines but waste them on some increasingly basic software. My Linux-run Macs have made me fall in love with computers all over again.
If this somehow results in me being able to run like Graphene on my iPhone in a few years, or even connect my Apple Watch to a non-Apple phone, I will be pretty excited.
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Should you stay with using the Apple app store. It absolutely nothing bad about this decision it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn't force anyone to.
The amount of bad faith arguments in this thread are disturbing for supposedly informed tech savvy people.
It's so weird. I can kind of understand this level of ignorance on other platforms, but here? The platform a majority of the people actively sought out because they saw what happens when a walled gardens starts turning against its users?
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This is very bad. Their walled garden is perfect for the young, elderly, and stupid.
Hopefully some competitor arrives to replace them.
No one is forcing you do use apps outside of the app store. It's about choice.
If such a competitor emerged they'd not be able to trade in the EU, given the size of the EU economy that ain't happening.
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I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
You’re getting downvoted but how much would you like to bet that once the walled garden is down/their party apps can be installed; we’ll suddenly see “security related apps” installed by some EU law.
If I sound paranoid there’s already an app on Android that scans the content of your photo library (iPhones have this too but it’s only enabled during parental controls, Androids is stealth-enabled 24/7).
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I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available.
According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe).
I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.Vertical integration is bad, m'kay?
