China urges citizens to trade in 'old lithium e-bikes' for newer lead acid electric bikes

[frezik@midwest.social]

I'm hoping sodium ion takes over the ebike market. It's less energy dense then the very best lithium batteries, but most ebikes aren't using the very best lithium batteries, anyway. They're cheaper and alleviate the safety concerns (which are mostly overblown, anyway).

[jordanz@lemmy.world]

EV’s already weigh more than most of their ICE equivalents. I don’t think we want even heavier chemistries in them. You could reduce the battery capacity to keep the weight down but then it’s a double hit to range.

Heck a Model S weighs more than a fair number of F150’s on the road.

Model S: 4,323-4,960 lbs

F150: 4,021-5,540 lbs

[gayhitler@lemmy.ml]

I have. It sucks but it’s possible and because I live in a mountainous area I avoid that problem by using less assist so everything lasts longer.

The broader point I was trying to make is that If you’re trying to allocate the limited raw materials to the types of transport that benefit people the most then pushing e-bikes to lead acid makes a lot of sense. Yeah, the bikes could benefit from a more power dense battery, but they have backup pedals and ultimately their rider is the majority of the loaded bikes weight.

Electric cars and trucks weigh at least ten times what a person does and are generally used for longer distances than e-bikes so it makes more sense to use very energy dense batteries in them.

Again, I’m speaking from a position that recognizes the proliferation of electric vehicles in China and recognizes that the raw materials used to make lithium batteries are finite and in high demand, not from the position of trying to optimize the e-bike.

[venator@lemmy.nz]

Traded-in e-bikes will be sent for dismantling and recycling

Maybe they need the batteries for something else...

[bigdanishguy@sh.itjust.works]

No, they copy first movers.

the joked passed so far over the head of [email protected] that most observers thought it was an aeolian dust particle trapped in the outmost jetstream

[sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works]

Yeah, I'd totally buy a sodium ion battery. I think they have something like 75% the energy density per mass vs lithium ion, which is totally fine for my use case (commuter).

[lordwiggle@lemmy.world]

Just get rid of cars and fix proper biking and public transportation infrastructure. No need for that many cars, electric or not. Lithium is finite, the mines are horrible. But we're getting nuclear diamond batteries soon, they are a massive upgrade.

[raouldook@lemmy.world]

Sodium Ion batteries would be a better weight compromise than going to shitty old lead batteries. The new sodium batteries have almost no downsides but aren't quite as energy dense as lithium types. So they might be great in a large vehicle that's already going to be heavy, not so much in a smaller car. Saving the lithium stuff for smaller things is best (phones, laptops, etc)

[raouldook@lemmy.world]

Same in the US too. LiFEPO4 storage batteries are available cheaper than lead-acid for equal or even higher capacity.

Until the trumptard tariffs wreck our markets at least

[sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone]

Seems like cars don't all need 300 mi range, but a 5 lb weight difference in a bike is huge.

[gayhitler@lemmy.ml]

China has very developed bicycle infrastructure and massive public transportation compared to almost anywhere else. There are fewer car owners per capita than other countries. It’s still a smart play to use the hand of state to take steps to allocate the more energy dense batteries to applications that require them.

As I said before: Maybe these better chemistries that will replace lithium are just around the corner. I certainly don’t count unhatched chickens.

[gayhitler@lemmy.ml]

Five pounds is the grocery bag dangling off my flat bar.

[sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone]

Anyone who actually has done that knows that it always ends up swinging around and ending up in the spokes if you go fast enough.

Also 5 lbs is not a big deal when it's detachable, but it matters a lot more when it's part of a large 30+ lb object you're carrying up the stairs to your apartment.

[gayhitler@lemmy.ml]

Wait so would you leave your groceries outside while you carried in your bike?

[sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone]

Personally I use a backpack ever since the groceries in the spokes incident

[bilb@lem.monster]

The very next sentence specifically mentions that they did institute new safety standards

[gayhitler@lemmy.ml]

So you carry the groceries upstairs at the same time as your bike?

[sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone]

Have you heard of torque by happenchance?

[gayhitler@lemmy.ml]

How much does torque come into play when you’re carrying your bike upstairs?